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Forums - Gaming - MS Screwing Over the Little Guy

MS screwing someone I can believe but any major company Sony and Nintendo included re going to negotiate the best deal they can for them to make the most money they can. If it was so bad they would jump to PSN or to the P. The proof is in the pudding the currently the XBLA has the best slate of games so MS must be doing something right.



PS3, WII and 360 all great systems depends on what type of console player you are.

Currently playing Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2, Fallout 3, Halo ODST and Dragon Age Origins is next game

Xbox live:mywiferocks

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I say: SCREW THE LITTLE GUY!

Bullies FTW!



The article has no factual basis, and only speculates on the truth. Where are the quotes from these indie developers saying "oh man! Microsoft is screwing us over!". Instead the writer merely sticks to unsubstantiated opinion. He has no grasp on the XBLA market, gives no valid comparisons, or any good argument if your actually "in the know".

Want me to go piece by piece and tear it to shreds with actual data?


But instead of actually honoring that commitment to small-time developers, Xbox Live Arcade has divulged into a miniature version of the retail market—a service that caters to the large publishers and squishes out the small developers who haven't the manpower or financial backing to compete. Ever notice that the service's biggest hits are all coming from studios owned or represented by larger publishers? Prince of Persia (Ubisoft), Geometry Wars (Activision), TMNT Arcade (Konami/Digital Eclipse), Galaga Legions (Namco), and so on. What happened to the developer friendly service that was meant to expose all of those undiscovered Miyamoto's out there?

But instead of actually honoring that commitment to small-time developers, Xbox Live Arcade has divulged into a miniature version of the retail market—a service that caters to the large publishers and squishes out the small developers who haven't the manpower or financial backing to compete. Ever notice that the service's biggest hits are all coming from studios owned or represented by larger publishers? Prince of Persia (Ubisoft), Geometry Wars (Activision), TMNT Arcade (Konami/Digital Eclipse), Galaga Legions (Namco), and so on. What happened to the developer friendly service that was meant to expose all of those undiscovered Miyamoto's out there?

One of the questions he fails to ask, or think fo himself is "why are the retro titles doing better than the indie titles"? It's not as if Microsoft isn't allowing new, indie IP's onto the market. The reason behind these old retro & retroHD titles doing well is due to 2 reasons:

1) Name Brand Recognition

2) Marketing

And that's a very simple fact. When you have a totally new IP by a no name company, it's hard for it to do well - simply because these indie developers are rookies when it comes to having a real marketing team that knows how to push an IP to do well. I've lamented TIME and TIME again against many of the indie developers that fail to bother marketing their game(s). Many XBLA games go onto the service as virtual unknowns, and that's not the way to get notability of your IP out there. Indie developers need marketing - even if the game is good, and can garner a high conversion rate from users, users still must know the game is

a) Available.

b) Good.

And the developer can establish both things by building a strong community base, and get their name out there. Many indie developers do a good job of it, but many don't. Why was/is it that Marble Blast Ultra was one of the best new IP's to XBLA in 2006? Because GarageGames actually has a marketing team, which is unique for a smaller developer. But that's the issue with most other smaller devs: No marketing spend = no money. Even if a game is digitally distributed, people have to know about it.

 

Well, one of those budding geniuses just exposed himself with the release of Braid--a brilliant time bending puzzle platformer in the vein of Donkey Kong 94 but with a style and flair rivaled by few. If you haven't bought this masterpiece yet, shame on you! The whole thing was created by one man, namely Jonathan Blow, former author of the Inner Product column for Game Developer Magazine and host of the Experimental Gameplay Workshop at the annual Game Developer's Conference. Braid is the purist definition of an "indie game" and has fortunately gotten a lot of recognition due to positive word of mouth among gamers and press. Too bad that it doesn't look as though Jonathan will rake in the massive profits from the game that he deserves. Why, you ask? Probably because he has little room for negotiation with Microsoft Game Studios as his publisher and because Microsoft enjoys screwing over the little guy.

Wrong. This is a totally unsubstantiated claim at worst, and an ill-researched claim at best. As of yesterday Jonathan Blow has said that Braid has almost "broken even" when you count opportunity cost, and that outside of the opportunity cost, the game has been very profitable. This means that he has made a few hundred thousand dollars (or so) for his own pockets. Microsoft hasn't screwed him over. Again, the author never reads any of JB's comments about the Microsoft machine: There were, and are snags, but the fact is, that Braid would have only done this well on XBLA, and not PC or PSN.

Developers who are working on XBLA projects seem to be treated one of two ways. If you've got publisher backing, Microsoft will be more willing to negotiate such things as royalty rates, or even bend some of the countless certification hurdles such as was the case with Capcom (Super Street Fighter II Turbo HD) and Konami (Castlevania: Symphony of the Night) when their games were too large for the (ridiculously small) XBLA file size limit. If you don't have publisher backing, and likewise represent yourself in the face of Microsoft, prepare to fork up a massive percentage of your profits with little to no leverage for a better deal. Publisher backed developers can probably expect to keep around 70% of their profits from a single project, but royalties from an independent game can possibly drop as low as 40% in the worst circumstances. If an independent developer can manage to keep their 70%, Microsoft has a back door approach to choke their bottom line. Microsoft can choose at their discretion to "market" (the extent of this marketing goes unsaid) any XBLA title and take an additional 30% cut of the profits for the duration of said marketing period. Most XBLA games sell the mass majority of their units during the first week of availability with a trickle down period of sales following thereafter. How convenient for Microsoft that most of these profit eating marketing periods occur during the first week of a game's availability. Some foreign XBLA developers (Europe especially, because the Euro is now much stronger than the dollar) don't even realize that they are getting screwed by Microsoft on the point-to-dollar exchange rate. Some developers are actually losing money because they aren't making back what they put into the project thanks to Microsoft's dubious tactics.

I agree that Microsoft has been willing to bend backward for bigger developers a little bit more, when it comes to file sizes, but the fact is...Microsoft had to, or else many games would not have been on the service. What do you want Microsoft to do? Hold the hand(s) of every developer and do everything they want? Indie developers have stated that Microsoft has been very helpful getting their game to market.

What the writer doesn't understand is why publishers get that higher cut, and are valuable: There are a ton of costs incurred with being self-published. Just because you have a game coded, doesn't mean your out of the woods. You have certification processes, ratings boards, and other major hurdles to go through. Any game can be self-published, if a developer wants to do it. However, it does cost money to self-publish...But what do you expect? Passing worldwide ratings boards isn't always easy and costs money. That's why Microsoft re-structured the whole XNA/Unpublished deal. Although the split of profits has gone down to around 30% of revenue for a MS-published title, the fact is, they do a lot more for the indie developer, and have outlined the change in what they offer pretty clearly. The writer of the article never bothered, however, to look it up.

 

Oh, and the quote

"You know things are bad when it costs many indie game developers less to produce a decent DS title for retail than to develop your standard Xbox Live Arcade game for digital download." 

Was laughable. Why did Metanet publish N+ to XBLA before the PSP/DS version was made...And delayed for months? What about the fact that Puzzle Quest has sold better on XBLA than DS? I'd love to see what DS games, and their budgets, he's quoting?

Most XBLA games, cost wise, range from $150,000-$500,000 if not the vast majority of them....Maybe it's me, but I doubt that many DS games can be made, published, and distributed for under $500,000 and achieve any sort of quality milestones (good game, good sales, profitability). I'm not saying DS games aren't profitable, but I doubt that coding, and producing the carts for the games is as cheap as XBLA, WiiWare, or PSN.

 

I'll end with this to rebut his article:

What are the top games on XBLA for 2008?

N+

Rez HD

Castle Crashers

Geometry Wars

Braid

3 Titles are independant, and made by studios that have a total employee base of under 30 people. Braid was made by 2 people. N+ by 15, and Castle Crashers by 30. Rez and Geometry Wars were also made by studios that aren't affiliated with one of the uber-companies either. 2008 has brough a ton of great, proftable, new IPs to the marketplace, yet the ranter harps on old titles published last year - Why didn't he bother talking about N+, Poker Smash, Castle Crashers, or other unique IPs that launched this year? Oh wait, he wants to cherry pick to prove his point.

The article fails hard. Maybe he should read more VGC?

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Commando said:
Yeah it sucks.

but I think the idea is, that it's an easier path to exposure through XBOX Live and that there are those willing to bank on that trade off.

Me for example, I am very interested in working with the free devlopment software available for download on the XBOX360. If I do get off my ass and develop something I may seriously consider going to Microsoft to publish it, knowing it will screw me over cost wise but it will give me an easier chance to get on to the market and maybe make a name for myself. THEN I may be able to petition other companies for a chance to develop for them at a reasonable price.

 

 If you don’t get your fair share then it’s not worth it. Don’t sell yourself short just for exposure and fame. MS can afford to pay you any price, believe that. If I do something it will be for the money. Wait for LBP to come out and watch and see how many people get picked up by developers.



Nicely put stickball



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without xbla they wouldn't even have an opportunity and psn wouldn't exist



matt247 said:
without xbla they wouldn't even have an opportunity and psn wouldn't exist

Correct.

As much as people would love to fault Microsoft for what they do, the fact is, they did it. Nintendo nor Sony had any systems in place for a good DD service for unique IPs until Microsoft did it. From Day-1, Microsoft had unique, non-retro titles available for download.

As an investor/business analyst, I will, at some point fund the development of a game. I approached a few DS, PSN, XBLA, and other developers for the game. Guess what service they tell me to go with? XBLA. It's still the premier servce for new IPs on a digitally distributed service. Yes, there are extra hoops, yes, MS has standards that are different than PSN/WW, but they still have the best userbase to make a profit from your game.

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Stickball's comments are right on. It is however true as the article points that XBLA isn't anymore what it was at launch and that MS has clamped down on the service - people like Treasure (for example) are having all their XBLA pitchings shoot down because MS has now decided it wants a "direction" for the service, whatever it is... They also announced recently they are removing from the service poorly-performing games, which is another shot in the dark. They are aware their original "unlimited shelf, no entry barrier" approach isn't forward but seem to be lost as what to make out of it.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

Stickball has a good point, but yeah, like Bitmap says, and as these things typically go, small beginnings usually lose their ideals and direction.

Which actually makes me wonder if Sony will eventually charge for PSN... hmmm




PSN: chenguo4
Current playing: No More Heroes

chenguo4 said:
Stickball has a good point, but yeah, like Bitmap says, and as these things typically go, small beginnings usually lose their ideals and direction.

Which actually makes me wonder if Sony will eventually charge for PSN... hmmm

Very doubtful. They sound very committed to keeping it free. I think with Qore, downloadable games, and Home, there'll be plenty of ways for them to generate revenue without charging a subscription for PSN itself.