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Forums - Gaming - Why is only FF and Dragon Quest JPRG:s selling well?

Pristine20 on 29 August 2008
Sky Render said:
Fair enough, I suppose, WoW. Regardless, the RPG market has only three authentically dominant series. And of those three, two are very similar. As well, all three have been dominant series for at least a decade, two decades or more for FF and DQ. That is not the mark of a healthy industry, that is the mark of a stagnant industry. When consumers at large will only trust three brands to the exclusion of all others, the market is in trouble. Should one of those brands fall and no new brand with new values take its place, things will get even worse.

 

 Brands that now have 10 years between each new iteration...LOL



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Bodhesatva on 29 August 2008

It's the sign of a hardcore genre. Read the following article for an insightful and articulate explanation of how game genres rise and retract in to a "core" user base. Key quotation:

 

Genre maturity leads to market consolidation
In past articles I’ve discussed two key concepts. The first is genre addiction and the second is the genre life cycle. These both have major market implications for both individual game developers, but also for the market as a whole.

To briefly recap, genre addiction is the process by which:

  • Players become addicted to a specific set of game mechanics.
  • This group of players has a strong homogenous preference for this genre of games, creating a well defined, easily serviceable market segment.
  • Game developers who release games within a genre with a standardized set of play mechanics are most likely to capture the largest percentage of the pre-existing market.
  • Over time, the game mechanics defining the genre becomes rigidly defined, the tastes of the genre addicts become highly sophisticated and innovation within the genre is generally punished by the market place.


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a324/Arkives/Disccopy.jpg%5B/IMG%5D">

Riachu on 29 August 2008
Sky Render said:
Fair enough, I suppose, WoW. Regardless, the RPG market has only three authentically dominant series. And of those three, two are very similar. As well, all three have been dominant series for at least a decade, two decades or more for FF and DQ. That is not the mark of a healthy industry, that is the mark of a stagnant industry. When consumers at large will only trust three brands to the exclusion of all others, the market is in trouble. Should one of those brands fall and no new brand with new values take its place, things will get even worse.

So we're talking about the Japanese market, right?

 



 

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Words Of Wisdom on 29 August 2008
Sky Render said:
Fair enough, I suppose, WoW. Regardless, the RPG market has only three authentically dominant series. And of those three, two are very similar. As well, all three have been dominant series for at least a decade, two decades or more for FF and DQ. That is not the mark of a healthy industry, that is the mark of a stagnant industry. When consumers at large will only trust three brands to the exclusion of all others, the market is in trouble. Should one of those brands fall and no new brand with new values take its place, things will get even worse.

I would be happy were FF/DQ to leave the market for a period of time actually.  It would leave an opening in the market and there are a LOT of companies who would love to fill it (or at least claim a part of it).



Riachu on 29 August 2008
Bodhesatva said:

It's the sign of a hardcore genre. Read the following article for an insightful and articulate explanation of how game genres rise and retract in to a "core" user base. Key quotation:

 

Genre maturity leads to market consolidation
In past articles I’ve discussed two key concepts. The first is genre addiction and the second is the genre life cycle. These both have major market implications for both individual game developers, but also for the market as a whole.

To briefly recap, genre addiction is the process by which:

  • Players become addicted to a specific set of game mechanics.
  • This group of players has a strong homogenous preference for this genre of games, creating a well defined, easily serviceable market segment.
  • Game developers who release games within a genre with a standardized set of play mechanics are most likely to capture the largest percentage of the pre-existing market.
  • Over time, the game mechanics defining the genre becomes rigidly defined, the tastes of the genre addicts become highly sophisticated and innovation within the genre is generally punished by the market place.

I doubt JRPGs will decline like point and click adventure games did

 



 

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Kasz216 on 29 August 2008
Pristine20 said:
Kasz216 said:
Pristine20 said:
Kasz216 said:
Pristine20 said:
Kasz216 said:
Pristine20 said:
sc94597 said:

Pokemon sales>Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest

To answer you question; Jrpgs are pretty niche outside of Japan. I guess most Westerners have different tastes than the Japanese. Same reason FPS don't sell to well in Japan.

JRPGs also seem to be niche in JP. No none S-E effort has broken a mil in JP that I know of (except pokemon)

 

That's kinda like saying Mp3 music players are niche because none are really popular outside of Ipod.

Sure Square, Enix and SE are about the only ones outside of pokemong to reach 1 mil sales in Japan... but how many S, E and S-E games have done so?  A 40+?

 

 

so how would you define "niche" then? I thought it referred to an 'unpopular' genre. I just took his analogy on the "nicheness" of JRPGs in the west and applied it to Japan itself.

 

Which is what i'm saying... in Japan it has more million sellers then most other genres. 

Just because they all come from the same manufactuer doesn't mean it's niche.

Just that for some reason only S-E RPGs sell outside of pokemon.

 

Since DQ swords also performed well in JP, while LO, which is very similar to FF (even with the same creator) didn't perform well, can we say that only games branded S-E or Nintendo sell in Japan? In other words, other 3rd parties had best focus their efforts on some other market, which is what seems to be happening this gen.

 

Perhaps, not many games sell 1 million in Japan however, so you would have to weigh popularity vs how much you can sell.

1 Million copies sold is a big deal in a country with a population of 130,000,000.

1 Million in japan = 2.3 million in the US if you went with a direct ratio.

 

Not really...because Japan has a higher % of gamers than the US. They just seem to only play hand helds this gen.

 

US PS2 Million sellers - 112

Japanese PS2 Million sellers - 19.

So... using your criteia.

1 Million in Japan is more like... 5.9 million in the US.

Those 4 companies who did it.  SE, Konami, Koei and Capcom.



Oyvoyvoyv on 29 August 2008
Pristine20 said:
Soriku said:
Pristine20 said:
sc94597 said:

Pokemon sales>Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest

To answer you question; Jrpgs are pretty niche outside of Japan. I guess most Westerners have different tastes than the Japanese. Same reason FPS don't sell to well in Japan.

JRPGs also seem to be niche in JP. No none S-E effort has broken a mil in JP that I know of (except pokemon)

 


Team Destiny games do really well. Tales of Destiny on the PS1 sold 870k in Japan alone (not 1 mil, but it was close...) which is a lot more than most RPGs. But beyond that I don't remember many RPGs selling 1 mil+ in Japan if they're not named FF/DQ/KH/Pokemon.

The new Wii Tales is going to be made by Team Destiny...so maybe that could get close again.

consoles aren't that popular in JP anymore. The new wii tales would struggle to make 500K

 

 

Consoles are just as popular as they were last generation, well within 10% comparatively. It's just that handhelds have become a lot more popular, so they are likely to get more attention in Japan oriented games.

 

Other than that, a few facts.

 

There are 3 RPG games that have sold 2M +, that are not Pokemon, FF or DQ. Those 3 are, Monster Hunter 2FG, Yu Gi Oh duel monsters IV and Chrono Trigger.

 



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Riachu on 29 August 2008
Soriku said:
Pristine20 said:
Soriku said:
Pristine20 said:
sc94597 said:

Pokemon sales>Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest

To answer you question; Jrpgs are pretty niche outside of Japan. I guess most Westerners have different tastes than the Japanese. Same reason FPS don't sell to well in Japan.

JRPGs also seem to be niche in JP. No none S-E effort has broken a mil in JP that I know of (except pokemon)

 


Team Destiny games do really well. Tales of Destiny on the PS1 sold 870k in Japan alone (not 1 mil, but it was close...) which is a lot more than most RPGs. But beyond that I don't remember many RPGs selling 1 mil+ in Japan if they're not named FF/DQ/KH/Pokemon.

The new Wii Tales is going to be made by Team Destiny...so maybe that could get close again.

consoles aren't that popular in JP anymore. The new wii tales would struggle to make 500K

 

 

That's a lie. ToS: DotNW on the Wii is on it's way to 250k and it was made by some Team Symphonia members and some members new to Tales. Unlike them, Team Destiny is actually really popular. The best selling Tales games in Japan were all Team Destiny titles.

Consoles aren't popular in Japan? Then I guess FF XIII won't do well on the PS3 in Japan according to that logic!

HD consoles aren't popular in Japan. That's what you should've said. The Wii is still selling well in Japan.

Do Japanese gamers prefer 2D games? Or is that they prefer Tales games in 2D?

 



 

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Sky Render on 29 August 2008

You should not wish for the market leaders to vanish. A lot of the survival of a game genre market's survival hinges on the dominant leader. Without them, no matter how good the alternatives are, the market will fall without them. We saw this in action about 10 years ago, when the adventure game genre died. The warning signs were there early when one of the two market leaders, Sierra Online, started producing games that sold less and less than usual. When Sierra Online and later LucasArts left the genre behind, the entire market for adventure games dried up and vanished. A lot of people blame other genres for cannibalizing the adventure game market, discounting the decline and departure of key players. A market cannot survive without a leader.



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

Riachu on 29 August 2008
Sky Render said:
You should not wish for the market leaders to vanish. A lot of the survival of a game genre market's survival hinges on the dominant leader. Without them, no matter how good the alternatives are, the market will fall without them. We saw this in action about 10 years ago, when the adventure game genre died. The warning signs were there early when one of the two market leaders, Sierra Online, started producing games that sold less and less than usual. When Sierra Online and later LucasArts left the genre behind, the entire market for adventure games dried up and vanished. A lot of people blame other genres for cannibalizing the adventure game market, discounting the decline and departure of key players. A market cannot survive without a leader.

The real reason why Adventure games declined is because they primarily were on PC while the new gamers in the 90s generally prefered consoles.

 



 

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