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Forums - Sony - Could the PS3 take the place of PS4 Next Gen?

Soriku said:
DMeisterJ said:

@ Soriku

No, PSP isn't 2x the price of the DS... Anymore.

But when it mattered (the early years) PSP was priced a hell of a lot more than the DS. First 250, then 200, and finally 170 last year. But are you telling me having the price tag double that of it's competitor, even for a little bit (six or so months) didn't hurt the console?

And again, let's be honest, the PSP doesn't have much life left in it. It's inability to move software aside from some spectacular feats of awesomeness (Phantasy Star, Monster Hunter Freedom, God of War, and Crisis Core) isn't making things any better.

And the Wii being "easier to make money on" isn't a reason for Third-party support, but a reason for slipshod re-makes, ports, and mini-games

But let's not get into that argument, right?


The fact of the matter is that third-party games on the Wii may or may not come, but to be absolutely sure that they will come with the history it's had for two years, is hard to believe.

 

That's like saying the PS3 is doomed because it was double the price the Wii for a long time. It hurt the PS3 but it's not killing it...and the PSP isn't dead either. It's just going to make little difference to the leaderi n the long run.

Also, the Wii being easier to make money on IS a sole reason. Not every company will make shovelware. The ones that don't will take advantage of the Wii's advantage in that case and they can still make a great game. That's like saying why isn't the DS getting only mingames/shovelware/whatever when it sells that stuff so well.

As for your last paragraph, big Wii games take 2-3 years of development. There are most likely some big games in development for it right now but unannounced.

Why are you guys arguing? The ps2 is the clear winner here.

 

 



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Soriku said:
Obliterator1700 said:
Soriku said:
@blazing

Just because Sony WANT to doesn't mean they will. Every console manufacturer wants to be in first. Every game developer wants their games to sell well. Does that mean it will happen? No. And Sony isn't exactly doing anything much to help the PS3's life span very much.

@Obliterator

Because firmware updates will bring FF XIV, MGS5, Ninja Gaiden 3, and GTA V...exclusively for PS3 ;P
Not that...The point is that firmware updates will keep the system up to date.

 

 

 

In terms of what? Graphics? Because I doubt a firware update will give it a superior graphics card/CPU/GPU/etc...lolz.

No need for graphics...We haven't even seen the true capacity of the ps3 in terms of graphics.  For the bold, don't you have a Wii? Which would make that statement false. Xbox>Ps2, see what happened. Same goes with the PS3>Wii.

 

 



Soriku said:
Obliterator1700 said:
Soriku said:
Obliterator1700 said:
Soriku said:
@blazing

Just because Sony WANT to doesn't mean they will. Every console manufacturer wants to be in first. Every game developer wants their games to sell well. Does that mean it will happen? No. And Sony isn't exactly doing anything much to help the PS3's life span very much.

@Obliterator

Because firmware updates will bring FF XIV, MGS5, Ninja Gaiden 3, and GTA V...exclusively for PS3 ;P
Not that...The point is that firmware updates will keep the system up to date.

 

 

 

In terms of what? Graphics? Because I doubt a firware update will give it a superior graphics card/CPU/GPU/etc...lolz.

No need for graphics...We haven't even seen the true capacity of the ps3 in terms of graphics.  For the bold, don't you have a Wii? Which would make that statement false. Xbox>Ps2, see what happened. Same goes with the PS3>Wii.

 

 

 

Wait...what are you trying to say?

How will it be up to date then?

The graphically superior consoles aren't winning. Look at the Xbox. Do you see many Wii/Xbox ports because the graphics are similar? The PS3 isn't going to be first this gen either...so why Wii 2/PS3 ports (this is mostly a continution to obieslut).

Firmware in many devices can now be updated without the need for additional hardware, often through the use of vendor-provided software. This=Up to date.

 

 



@soriku, but the ps3 is still going to be in use by many many people at that point in time, and easily for the first few years almost all the Wii 2 games will be on the ps3, hindering the Wii 2's dominance.

pluss i am not against PS360 games, i just dont really like it when an exclusive goes multiplat and you have to ist there and watch the quality of the game go down and down to compared to what it should have been when it was originally shown.



xman said:
Impulsivity said:

Honestly I see 0 point in a new Playstation. I am perfectly happy with the Playstation 3s graphics. They are very on par with the best of the PC world still, its not like the 360 where you look at the 360, then look at the PC version and go WHOA that 360 version is gimped (ala Mass Effect or Gears of War). The Playstation 3 is significantly more powerful and FAR more scalable then the 360. It is also well placed for what the future of gaming is, multiple processor systems with distributed computing as the engine that drives the games. Look at Intel demos of Nilhelm (probably spelled wrong) 8 core systems that are not much more powerful then the PS3 driving fully dynamic graphics WITHOUT any GPU at all. The PS3 can continue to grow in capability as more developers learn how to efficiently use the extra cores. The 360 has hit a wall with its limited 3 processor design, there is no real way theoretical or otherwise that it will keep up with the potential of the PS3.

I know some of you are thinking OMG the PS3 games look the same!!! but you are looking at mainly multiplat releases made for both (which means the graphics in something like GTA4 were reduced so they could fit on a DVD, MS charges extra PER DVD if you go over 1 DVD, read a few developers comments on that). Games that really start to tap the power of the PS3 like Metal Gear Solid 4 look on par with anything the best PCs run, and that will continue to be the case for several years.

Also look at what you get today for 3-4000 dollars in a gaming PC that you cannot get with a PS3 level PC (probably around 1000 dollar gaming PC). You can turn AA up (it is often quite hard to really tell the difference AA makes), can add more complex shadow effects (again, not a huge deal 99% of the time) and do other little adjustments which are not exactly key selling points. What is the new 360 tagline going to be in 2010? Get a new 500 dollar console! We have 8x AA instead of 2x AA and better shadow effects! This isn't the PS1/PS2 generation where there are huge obvious gains to be made. Games like Uncharted and Metal Gear 4 are pretty close to photorealistic already, its not like a small increase or even "large" increase in graphics would be perceptable at this stage to most people even those with 42 inch 1080P TVs (the real high end of the mass market. I would bet less then 5% of all consumers have a 50 inch or larger TV with 1080P or better). Until something like VR comes along and the processor power beyond the PS3 is REALLY needed, I don't see the Playstation brand needing a big refresh any time soon.

Yes the 360 needs a refresh, especially as the PS3 pulls ahead thanks to blu ray/better capacity, but how do you do that? I mean to upgrade to something as good or better then the PS3 the 360 would need to sacrifice its ONLY advantage, which is its North America install base. The Wii will have a reason to upgrade, getting Nintendo characters in HD with better motion controls (probably a PS3 eqiv Wii in a few years at the same 200-250 price point), but the 360? Microsoft, unless they can SEVERELY leap frog Sony with something like VR, will go right back to the Xbox days where they were a little more powerful then the previously released PS system, but there wasn't nearly enough of a difference to drive sales. PS2 to Xbox is what the PS3 will be to the Xbox 720 if its released in the next 3 years. Better, but only on a shrug your shoulders and keep your old console capacity.

 

Again I refer to Moores law in previous arguments.  If MS and WII launch new consoles PS3 will have to im my opinion the lifecyle for a console is 5-6 years even sony launched the PS3 before its 10 year PS2 lifecyle end.

    Double the processor power and get......?  Tripple it even and get....?   Of course trippling it in 2011 won't be feasable because of cost, but even hypothetically.  The change from the PS2 to PS3 (or PS1 to PS2) was much greater then is reasonably possible even with vastly more processor power.  If you tripple everything for a 2011 release there isn't a HUGE difference still, certainly not the PS1 to PS2 or PS2 to PS3 difference it would take to really drive 500 dollar consoles.  There are rapidly diminishing returns beyond a certain point when it comes to system resources.  You should read some articles on photo realisim in CGI.  There is a certain point, around where the PS3 is at, that is sweet spot number one, which is almost photo realistic but still styalized enough as to not become unsettling.  Sweet spot two is complete photorealism which requires something just short of a super computer to achieve in anything even close to real time.  Thus to really add upon the PS3 in a meaningful way the next console would have to be equivilant to a super computer, which won't happen before 2012 or 2013 at the soonest.  A 2010 Xbox would be just like the 2003 Xbox, it will indeed be "better" then the PS3 in capability, but only marginally so, not enough to really make a difference and drive new xbox sales like being way better then teh PS2/game cube drove 360 sales. 

   As you approach photo realisim there are diminishing returns when it comes to more power.  Again I point to the difference between a 1000 dollar computer with an 8800GT card, a 3.0 ghz core 2 duo and 4 GBs of RAM and a 6000 dollar computer with some 4 graphic card SLI set up, an 8 core processor and 16GBs of RAM with a 64 bit OS.  There really isn't THAT much of a difference, even the 1000 dollar box can run most games on high resolution, all that extra 5000 buys is better shadows, slight lighting improvements and 16x anti aliasing instead of 2x AA.  All three of those are things that A) few people notice and B) fewer people want to shell out 500 dollars for a new console to get.

 




 PSN ID: ChosenOne feel free to add me

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Gilgamesh said:

It could be possible but once the next Xbox and Wii 2 come out that'll hurt them big time in sales and then they'd probably be force to release a PS4 or atlease something new to the PS3

 

 true



PLAYSTATION®3 is the future.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

 

Consoles owned: Game Cube, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DS, PSP, PS1, PS2, PS3.

My prediction: NATAL WILL NOT help 360 sales. Maybe a 50-100k boost week 1, then a 30-70 k boost week 2, and back to the norm again after 3-5 weeks.

xman said:
321tttrini4everz said:
PS3 WILL BE COMPETING WITH THE NEXT GEN CONSOLES(wii2 and 720) !
i really don't believe a PLAYSTATION 4 will be seen until 2014.if so it will be expensive like the PS3,i doubt SONY will approach the market that way again

The PS3 graphics are no better than the 360, of MS launches a new console and WII does Sony has no choice but to offer one or die.  Even the PS2 is finally on its last throughs.  The PS3 is no PS2

 

 dude the ps3 has way bettr graohics and that is not even what matters the ps2 is sustaining sales next to the 360 even thogh the graphics arent great



PLAYSTATION®3 is the future.....NOW.......B_E_L_I_E_V_E

 

Consoles owned: Game Cube, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advance, Nintendo DS, PSP, PS1, PS2, PS3.

My prediction: NATAL WILL NOT help 360 sales. Maybe a 50-100k boost week 1, then a 30-70 k boost week 2, and back to the norm again after 3-5 weeks.

crymetyme said:
Insanestalker2 said:
Well i heard that the ps3 uses 6/8 of the cells. One for power and one is just not used... If they could use the 7th cell then I think it would be alright as the ps4... Its just a guess.

 

i actually agree kind of. They could unlock the 8th processor, and like what they did with the PSP, they could overclock them (not sure if its a good idea, considering it would make even more heat).

They could also release an upgrade for it expanding the RAM to 1gb, and maybe adding a bit more graphical processoring power or even a weakened version of the cell (3 SPEs at 3.2ghz) and the orginal PPE would still manage these new SPEs.

If they did both of these things, and along with price, and by this time, developer being able to develop easily for the PS3, they could keep up for a bit more and still be a challenge toward the next-gen consoles.

 

Well adding more ram would be difficult and troublesome. I do agree though if prices continue to drop, and development gets easier, the ps3 will improve.

Also, can one of the cells do something with graphics to relieve the stress on the gpu so the gpu can produce better images?



Insanestalker2 said:
crymetyme said:
Insanestalker2 said:
Well i heard that the ps3 uses 6/8 of the cells. One for power and one is just not used... If they could use the 7th cell then I think it would be alright as the ps4... Its just a guess.

 

i actually agree kind of. They could unlock the 8th processor, and like what they did with the PSP, they could overclock them (not sure if its a good idea, considering it would make even more heat).

They could also release an upgrade for it expanding the RAM to 1gb, and maybe adding a bit more graphical processoring power or even a weakened version of the cell (3 SPEs at 3.2ghz) and the orginal PPE would still manage these new SPEs.

If they did both of these things, and along with price, and by this time, developer being able to develop easily for the PS3, they could keep up for a bit more and still be a challenge toward the next-gen consoles.

 

Well adding more ram would be difficult and troublesome. I do agree though if prices continue to drop, and development gets easier, the ps3 will improve.

Also, can one of the cells do something with graphics to relieve the stress on the gpu so the gpu can produce better images?

yes it can, the first design on the ps3 i think it involved just two cells and no graphics card, someone correct me if i am wrong

 



Soriku said:

That's like saying the PS3 is doomed because it was double the price the Wii for a long time. It hurt the PS3 but it's not killing it...and the PSP isn't dead either. It's just going to make little difference to the leaderi n the long run.

Also, the Wii being easier to make money on IS a sole reason. Not every company will make shovelware. The ones that don't will take advantage of the Wii's advantage in that case and they can still make a great game. That's like saying why isn't the DS getting only mingames/shovelware/whatever when it sells that stuff so well.

As for your last paragraph, big Wii games take 2-3 years of development. There are most likely some big games in development for it right now but unannounced.

Ah...

To be 13 again.

I wish I could see the world through rose-colored glasses like you do, but sadly...

Let's agree to disagree.  You believe they will come, even though 2 years into the life-cycle, they havent, and still want to believe they will for some reason, so, I'm going to let you keep on believing that, cause it's fun to believe in things, even if they have no chance of coming true.