By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Perry: "Sony has no chance of making money on the PS3"

Shadowblind said:
DeotoxSlayer said:

Microsoft Lost $6,369,000,000 off of their gaimng division? Damn that's even worse then I though.

If Sony has no chance of making trhe PS3 break even, then doesn't that also mean that the Microsoft gaming Division will never turn a profit.

I'm pretty sure they lost $4 billion, not 6. http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/26/forbes-xbox-lost-microsoft-4-billion-and-counting/

Just google it if you want more articles to say the same thing.

 

Wrong, that article you posted was in 2005...

try googling something like this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111003 and why are we talking about Microsoft?



Around the Network

We also have to recognize who Dave Perry is. He's a washed up old developer who's bet his livelihood on flash-based browser-based casual games. He clearly has an agenda, which is to convince people (including investors in his company) that the old style of gaming (home console boxes) is antiquated and obsolete. He's not saying this crap out of the kindness of his heart. It's all a self-motivated smear campaign (aimed not just at Sony BTW).



My Top 5:

Shadow of the Colossus, Metal Gear Solid 3, Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia, Chrono Trigger

My 2 nex-gen systems: PS3 and Wii

Prediction Aug '08: We see the PSP2 released fall '09. Graphically, it's basically the same as the current system. UMD drive ditched and replaced by 4-8gb on board flash memory. Other upgrades: 2nd analog nub, touchscreen, blutooth, motion sensor. Design: Flip-style or slider. Size: Think Iphone. Cost: $199. Will be profitable on day 1.

Shadowblind said:
DeotoxSlayer said:
AnarchyWest said:
DMeisterJ said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Seeing as how Sony has lost more money on the PS3 than they made on the PS1 and PS2 combined, I would have to agree with that. It will some day "make money" but not anywhere close to the extent that it lost money.

Errr... no.

The PS3 has lost the amount of money that they made during the PS2 era, give or take a few million.

It hasn't lost PS1 money yet.

I can't find the thread, but they've *only* lost 3.2 billion (Sounds so weird using only and 3.2 billion in one sentence) on the PS3, and they made almost that during the PS2 era.

The 2 billion or so the PS1 made is still here.

is this what your looking for ?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111003

 

 

 

 Microsoft Lost $6,369,000,000 off of their gaimng division? Damn that's even worse then I though.

If Sony has no chance of making trhe PS3 break even, then doesn't that also mean that the Microsoft gaming Division will never turn a profit.

 

 I'm pretty sure they lost $4 billion, not 6. http://www.joystiq.com/2005/09/26/forbes-xbox-lost-microsoft-4-billion-and-counting/

Just google it if you want more articles to say the same thing. 

your article is dated in 2005...the original xbox cost MS 4 Billion...RROD cost another billion...and selling console under manufacturing costs cost them another billion

 



forevercloud3000 said:
Some of you are fairly dense. Most systems these days never make a profit from the actual console. They make majority of it from royalties on games. It doesnt matter that they spent up all the money made from console sales of the PS2. They still have not spent up the money from the mountains of money made from royalty game sales.

The PS2 spent majority of the money made on the PS1 as well if you didnt know. Why should the PS3 be any different? All this is is marketing spin to have people's trust of Sony waver.j
Sony will make their money back in a few ways...
-from game royalties on their system
-soon the system will be able to break even, or at least make a small profit
-Now that blue ray is nxt in line to take the format throne, it will be bringing them in mounds of cash(and it is not owned by like 10 companies, its about three. Sony, Phillips, Pioneer, these are the creators)I think you are confusing it's supporters for the founders. There is a BDA that all support BDA but it is a creation of the companies I named before meaning they get much larger cuts.
-Home advertisements and saleable goods within the product
etc

Sony has nothing to worry about in the long run, this is why they sold it at a loss in the first place

You had better loan your rose colored glasses to the International Business Community which does not share your confidence in Sony's profitabilty or prospects.

For example  The International Business Times July 29,2008

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20080729/sony-profit-plunges-from-year-earlier.htm

Sony profit plunges 50 pct from year ago

TOKYO - Sony Corp. said Tuesday its April-June profit plunged to 34.98 billion yen ($326.9 million)--about half that recorded a year ago--as a strong yen, the absence of "Spider-Man 3" revenue and faltering results at its cell phone operations battered earnings. Bottom of Form

 

The Japanese electronics and entertainment company, which makes the Walkman player and the PlayStation 3 game machine, had recorded 66.46 billion yen in profit for the fiscal first quarter the previous year.

Price competition in its core electronics sector also led to Sony's worse-than-expected quarterly performance. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Financial had forecast a 52 billion yen ($486 million) profit.

Sony also lowered its full year profit forecast Tuesday to 240 billion yen ($2.24 billion) from an earlier 290 billion yen ($2.71 billion), blaming expected poor results at its Sony Ericsson mobile joint venture and a pessimistic outlook in electronics.

In Other Words the Game Division is doing better than most of their other divisions and we all know "how well" that's doing. Sony could actually be in fairly serious trouble.

 

 



noname2200 said:
DirtyP2002 said:

MS can afford it. Well it is strange to say a company facing more and more competition and is not made of money like it was, when you see they are making more and more money every single year.

 

Year employees

Revenuein Mio. US-$

1980 40 8
1981 125 16
1982 200 32
1983 383 69
1984 608 125
1985 910 140
1986 1.200 197
1987 2.000 300
1988 2.800 590
1989 3.900 804
1990 5.200 1.186
1991 11.700 1.847
1992 15.300 2.777
1993 16.500 3.786
1994 20.900 4.714
1995 17.800 6.075
1996 20.561 9.050
1997 22.232 11.936
1998 27.055 15.262
1999 31.575 19.747
2000 39.170 22.956
2001 48.030 25.296
2002 50.621 28.365
2003 54.468 32.187
2004 57.086 36.835
2005 61.000 39.778
2006 71.171 44.280
2007 78.565 51.120

2008 it was something like $60,000,000,000 revenue. So why do you think, MS is running out of money?

 

 

For the same reasons I posted: they're losing money. The chart you posted, while not useless, is limited solely to Microsoft's revenue. Revenue is great, but it is not the same as profit (which is far, far more important). Microsoft's profits have been steady, but it's been spending massive amounts to try and keep either grow in areas beyond its OS division, or to gain ground in places like the MP3 arena (and in the X-Box 360...) that they now have much less cash reserves than they had a measly two years ago (to repeat, they've lost over $30 billion in cash reserves in just two years, which is huge). In fact, now that I think of it I can only recall a small handful of financial articles that are even remotely positive on Microsoft's future prospects. The latter fact alone doesn't guarantee anything, of course, but the former does tell us that Microsoft is headed to financial troubles if it doesn't shape up quickly, and again investors are started to become unhappy with Microsoft's direction in many ways.

 

 

Could you provide a link showing these profit margins?



Around the Network
Grampy said:
forevercloud3000 said:
Some of you are fairly dense. Most systems these days never make a profit from the actual console. They make majority of it from royalties on games. It doesnt matter that they spent up all the money made from console sales of the PS2. They still have not spent up the money from the mountains of money made from royalty game sales.

The PS2 spent majority of the money made on the PS1 as well if you didnt know. Why should the PS3 be any different? All this is is marketing spin to have people's trust of Sony waver.j
Sony will make their money back in a few ways...
-from game royalties on their system
-soon the system will be able to break even, or at least make a small profit
-Now that blue ray is nxt in line to take the format throne, it will be bringing them in mounds of cash(and it is not owned by like 10 companies, its about three. Sony, Phillips, Pioneer, these are the creators)I think you are confusing it's supporters for the founders. There is a BDA that all support BDA but it is a creation of the companies I named before meaning they get much larger cuts.
-Home advertisements and saleable goods within the product
etc

Sony has nothing to worry about in the long run, this is why they sold it at a loss in the first place

You had better loan your rose colored glasses to the International Business Community which does not share your confidence in Sony's profitabilty or prospects.

For example The International Business Times July 29,2008

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20080729/sony-profit-plunges-from-year-earlier.htm

Sony profit plunges 50 pct from year ago

TOKYO - Sony Corp. said Tuesday its April-June profit plunged to 34.98 billion yen ($326.9 million)--about half that recorded a year ago--as a strong yen, the absence of "Spider-Man 3" revenue and faltering results at its cell phone operations battered earnings. Bottom of Form

The Japanese electronics and entertainment company, which makes the Walkman player and the PlayStation 3 game machine, had recorded 66.46 billion yen in profit for the fiscal first quarter the previous year.

Price competition in its core electronics sector also led to Sony's worse-than-expected quarterly performance. Analysts surveyed by Thomson Financial had forecast a 52 billion yen ($486 million) profit.

Sony also lowered its full year profit forecast Tuesday to 240 billion yen ($2.24 billion) from an earlier 290 billion yen ($2.71 billion), blaming expected poor results at its Sony Ericsson mobile joint venture and a pessimistic outlook in electronics.

 

In Other Words the Game Division is doing better than most of their other divisions and we all know "how well" that's doing. Sony could actually be in fairly serious trouble.

 

 

 

 

Where in the article does it say that the game division is doing better than most others? It doesn't. The game division is doing terribly. They only posted a $51 million profit last quarter and that was with the release of MGS4, GTA, and GT5:P. It was the other parts of Sony that pulled in the other $275million. This quarter they'll probably lose money in the gaming division w/out any major software releases except Madden and maybe Star Wars. However, last quarter's results are promising in the sense that the games division is on the right track. Without a doubt, the holiday season will see a huge profit. And it does appear that the division is on track for meeting Kaz Hirai's goal of making the PS3 profitable by March '09. Once the PS3 reaches that point, the games division will start bringing in serious money and will help prop up Sony as a whole.

People have been predicting doom and gloom for Sony for ages. In the PS1 and PS2 era, Sony survived largely b/c of the game division. During the launch of the PS3 when the division was bleeding rivers of money, Sony was still very profitable b/c of its TV division. Pretty soon the game division will start taking up the slack again. Sony's diverse products means it's going to be around for a long time coming.



My Top 5:

Shadow of the Colossus, Metal Gear Solid 3, Shenmue, Skies of Arcadia, Chrono Trigger

My 2 nex-gen systems: PS3 and Wii

Prediction Aug '08: We see the PSP2 released fall '09. Graphically, it's basically the same as the current system. UMD drive ditched and replaced by 4-8gb on board flash memory. Other upgrades: 2nd analog nub, touchscreen, blutooth, motion sensor. Design: Flip-style or slider. Size: Think Iphone. Cost: $199. Will be profitable on day 1.

I haven't been following Sony's reports since I've sold all my shares ages ago, but I'm pretty sure that their Movies, Camera, and Television (mostly LCD) are doing better than the gaming division. I only base this off of commentary on Sony on bloomberg TV/cnbc.



JaggedSac said:
noname2200 said:
DirtyP2002 said:

MS can afford it. Well it is strange to say a company facing more and more competition and is not made of money like it was, when you see they are making more and more money every single year.

 

Yearemployees

Revenuein Mio. US-$

1980 40 8
1981 125 16
1982 200 32
1983 383 69
1984 608 125
1985 910 140
1986 1.200 197
1987 2.000 300
1988 2.800 590
1989 3.900 804
1990 5.200 1.186
1991 11.700 1.847
1992 15.300 2.777
1993 16.500 3.786
1994 20.900 4.714
1995 17.800 6.075
1996 20.561 9.050
1997 22.232 11.936
1998 27.055 15.262
1999 31.575 19.747
2000 39.170 22.956
2001 48.030 25.296
2002 50.621 28.365
2003 54.468 32.187
2004 57.086 36.835
2005 61.000 39.778
2006 71.171 44.280
2007 78.565 51.120

2008 it was something like $60,000,000,000 revenue. So why do you think, MS is running out of money?

 

 

For the same reasons I posted: they're losing money. The chart you posted, while not useless, is limited solely to Microsoft's revenue. Revenue is great, but it is not the same as profit (which is far, far more important). Microsoft's profits have been steady, but it's been spending massive amounts to try and keep either grow in areas beyond its OS division, or to gain ground in places like the MP3 arena (and in the X-Box 360...) that they now have much less cash reserves than they had a measly two years ago (to repeat, they've lost over $30 billion in cash reserves in just two years, which is huge). In fact, now that I think of it I can only recall a small handful of financial articles that are even remotely positive on Microsoft's future prospects. The latter fact alone doesn't guarantee anything, of course, but the former does tell us that Microsoft is headed to financial troubles if it doesn't shape up quickly, and again investors are started to become unhappy with Microsoft's direction in many ways.

 

 

Could you provide a link showing these profit margins?

 

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2424903320080125 Talking about profits... 16 billion Dollar / year for MS

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/25/bloomberg/bxmsft.php

 http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSWNAB119520080717 (read the whole article, not just the title and judge afterwards)

 



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

how/why did Microsoft end up in this discussion anyway?



JaggedSac said:
noname2200 said:

 

 

Could you provide a link showing these profit margins?

Certainly, and I apologize for not doing so sooner. I won't be able to give you all the sources, since many of them are in print or were read by me quite a while ago, but here's one from last year that I scrounged up fairly quickly.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/309852_software02.html

Here's a sample for Q2 2008 (Q1 was good, and obviously, the full-year report isn't complete, and won't be until April 2009).

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=179255

Other recent reports have been fairly negative. The Wall Street Journal and my local paper, the Mercury News, routinely post pessimistic stories about Microsoft's outlook (although the latter is a Silicon Valley paper, so some bias towards the locals should be expected). There are others that I can scrounge up, if given more time.

Again though, I want to reiterate that Microsoft isn't going down anytime soon. However, they are slipping from their high, and there's investor pressure on them to find their focus again. How Microsoft will respond remains to be seen, but I think the Yahoo! situation is a strong indicator: right now Balmer prefers to buy their way into a market, rather than start from the grass roots and grow from there. But I'm getting off-topic here, so...enjoy the links?