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Forums - Nintendo - Actual sadness footage

Smash_Brother on 22 August 2008

-size: 10px; cursor: text; margin: 8px; border: 1px dashed #bbbbbb;" bgcolor="#ffffff">Viper1 said:

PS: The answer to question number two is Retro Studios. Metroid Prime was their first title which sits in the top 10 all time rankings.

Bad answer.

Not only was Nintendo funding development, but Miyamoto himself was cracking the whip on that one and providing what was no doubt a HUGE chunk of the direction on the game. Nintendo even forced them to shut down development of another of their games they were working on and forced them to focus entirely on MP.

Just look at what Nintendo's supervision did for companies like Rare and Silicon Knights by comparing their post-Nintendo releases to their pre-Nintendo releases: Rare has become largely a joke (Viva Pinata excluded) and Too Human is sadly getting trashed in reviews right now.

Unless Nintendo has recently taken Nibris under their wing and sent Miyamoto to personally oversee the project, then no, the comparison does not stand.


twesterm said:

Both of your points are just plain stupid and don't mean anything.  As viper1 said, Retro's first game was one of the best games of all time.   Braid was made by a small handful of people and it was their first game.  Portal was or originally made by a group of students if I'm not mistaken.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game)

Braid had a long and difficult road to get to release on XBLA, including being turned down by Sony early in its development and the creator, Blow, who must be independently wealthy because he invested over $180,000 of his own into the game over the 3 years of its development.

Portal's concept was theirs, but the release was only through the watchful eyes of Valve. 

Let's not be forgetting that Braid is a 2D game which can be completed in 45 minutes (speed run achievement) and Portal is a game focusing on interesting puzzle concepts which lasts 5-6 hours, tops, and both games are primarily downloadable.

Sadness has promised 20 hours with 10 different endings, moody atmospheric gameplay and unique use of the Wii's motion-sensing capabilities (something which most mainstream devs don't regularly do properly), and it's intended to be a retail game. Braid and Portal are not in the same league with what Sadness has been promised to be (this goes back to what I said about Nibris digging their own grave).

And both of you overlooked this key part of my post...

"There's no shame in a developer starting their career with a small puzzler/shooter/platformer which serves as a good test of their capabilities, acts as a learning experience for all involved and gives the development team a chance to cohere and learn how they can best make their team work well together."

I don't think I can emphasize enough just how much teamwork is involved in developing even a relatively simple game with a simple premise, let alone an epic like Sadness.

My simple point is this: don't get your hopes up. There's nothing worse than a company who hypes a game for years then delivers garbage. It's partially their fault for hyping it so much, but at some point, we gamers have to start accepting some of the blame for being duped into getting excited when we've learned so many times that we should know better.

twesterm said:

Ugh, you really need to start checking facts before you start typing.

 

How many Nintendo NDAs have YOU signed?

This is the same company who waits until the last minute to reveal ANYTHING for fear of having the idea stolen by competitors. They recently even insisted that Miyamoto can no longer discuss his hobbies because they're afraid of the competition getting ideas based upon that.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that this same company doesn't want video containing their proprietary development hardware being displayed publicly.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

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Gnizmo on 22 August 2008
Smash_Brother said:

 

twesterm said:

Ugh, you really need to start checking facts before you start typing.

 

How many Nintendo NDAs have YOU signed?

This is the same company who waits until the last minute to reveal ANYTHING for fear of having the idea stolen by competitors. They recently even insisted that Miyamoto can no longer discuss his hobbies because they're afraid of the competition getting ideas based upon that.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that this same company doesn't want video containing their proprietary development hardware being displayed publicly.

 Given that he is currently working on the Ghost Busters video game I am going to say he has signed far more than you. Also, it is absolutely ridiculous to think the showing of a simple piece of hardware would be banned. There is no great secret that will be revealed by seeing the outside of a dev kit that exists in plenty of places through-out the industry. There are likely thousands of people who could go snap a photo of it with relative ease if they wanted to, and so putting some big secret on the outside of the box would just be stupid.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

trestres on 22 August 2008

Still sounds like Vaporware. I don't know about that but the trailer looked fake.
I have to agree with Sqrl, vaporware until it's in my living room /thread



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Smash_Brother on 22 August 2008
Gnizmo said:

 Given that he is currently working on the Ghost Busters video game I am going to say he has signed far more than you. Also, it is absolutely ridiculous to think the showing of a simple piece of hardware would be banned. There is no great secret that will be revealed by seeing the outside of a dev kit that exists in plenty of places through-out the industry. There are likely thousands of people who could go snap a photo of it with relative ease if they wanted to, and so putting some big secret on the outside of the box would just be stupid.

 

There's a big fat warning on the front of the box that says "Confidential Property of Nintendo, Not for Release" as in "public release" as in "public viewing".

I don't know if they've revoked any developer licenses as a result, but I'm sure Nintendo is NOT fond of NDEVs being displayed in any public medium.

Though, Nnoo also had their NDEV pictured in an issue of GamesTM so maybe NoE is more lenient on this (as Nibris is also presumably licensed under NoE as well).

And no, unless he's the CEO of the company, he might not have signed one at all as companies sign their own internal NDAs. A license agreement only requires an NDA to be signed by one person who represents the organization.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

OGY on 22 August 2008

Isn't sadness meant to be a black and white game? What part of that was balck and white, or did i just miss something?



Nintendo = Innovation = Wii

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Viper1 on 22 August 2008

You're digging a grave here, SB. There is no NDA regarding public pictures of the units. I've seen a dev kit or test kit in a video from just about every single major developer/publisher working on Wii regardless of Nintendo subsidiary purview.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Gnizmo on 22 August 2008
Smash_Brother said:
Gnizmo said:

 Given that he is currently working on the Ghost Busters video game I am going to say he has signed far more than you. Also, it is absolutely ridiculous to think the showing of a simple piece of hardware would be banned. There is no great secret that will be revealed by seeing the outside of a dev kit that exists in plenty of places through-out the industry. There are likely thousands of people who could go snap a photo of it with relative ease if they wanted to, and so putting some big secret on the outside of the box would just be stupid.

 

There's a big fat warning on the front of the box that says "Confidential Property of Nintendo, Not for Release" as in "public release" as in "public viewing".

Thats one way to interpret what that sign means. Or it could mean that the actual unit itself is not for public release and intended to be used only by certain approved people. One of those actually makes sense while the other requires you to read a bunch into the sign and look for implications that make absolutely no sense. Your call I suppose.

 



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

The_vagabond7 on 22 August 2008

This topic is almost as much fail as the video.



You can find me on facebook as Markus Van Rijn, if you friend me just mention you're from VGchartz and who you are here.

twesterm on 22 August 2008
Smash_Brother said:

-size: 10px; cursor: text; margin: 8px; border: 1px dashed #bbbbbb;" bgcolor="#ffffff">Viper1 said:

PS: The answer to question number two is Retro Studios. Metroid Prime was their first title which sits in the top 10 all time rankings.

Bad answer.

Not only was Nintendo funding development, but Miyamoto himself was cracking the whip on that one and providing what was no doubt a HUGE chunk of the direction on the game. Nintendo even forced them to shut down development of another of their games they were working on and forced them to focus entirely on MP.

Just look at what Nintendo's supervision did for companies like Rare and Silicon Knights by comparing their post-Nintendo releases to their pre-Nintendo releases: Rare has become largely a joke (Viva Pinata excluded) and Too Human is sadly getting trashed in reviews right now.

Unless Nintendo has recently taken Nibris under their wing and sent Miyamoto to personally oversee the project, then no, the comparison does not stand.


twesterm said:

Both of your points are just plain stupid and don't mean anything.  As viper1 said, Retro's first game was one of the best games of all time.   Braid was made by a small handful of people and it was their first game.  Portal was or originally made by a group of students if I'm not mistaken.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game)

Braid had a long and difficult road to get to release on XBLA, including being turned down by Sony early in its development and the creator, Blow, who must be independently wealthy because he invested over $180,000 of his own into the game over the 3 years of its development.

Portal's concept was theirs, but the release was only through the watchful eyes of Valve. 

Let's not be forgetting that Braid is a 2D game which can be completed in 45 minutes (speed run achievement) and Portal is a game focusing on interesting puzzle concepts which lasts 5-6 hours, tops, and both games are primarily downloadable.

Sadness has promised 20 hours with 10 different endings, moody atmospheric gameplay and unique use of the Wii's motion-sensing capabilities (something which most mainstream devs don't regularly do properly), and it's intended to be a retail game. Braid and Portal are not in the same league with what Sadness has been promised to be (this goes back to what I said about Nibris digging their own grave).

And both of you overlooked this key part of my post...

"There's no shame in a developer starting their career with a small puzzler/shooter/platformer which serves as a good test of their capabilities, acts as a learning experience for all involved and gives the development team a chance to cohere and learn how they can best make their team work well together."

I don't think I can emphasize enough just how much teamwork is involved in developing even a relatively simple game with a simple premise, let alone an epic like Sadness.

My simple point is this: don't get your hopes up. There's nothing worse than a company who hypes a game for years then delivers garbage. It's partially their fault for hyping it so much, but at some point, we gamers have to start accepting some of the blame for being duped into getting excited when we've learned so many times that we should know better.

twesterm said:

Ugh, you really need to start checking facts before you start typing.

 

How many Nintendo NDAs have YOU signed?

This is the same company who waits until the last minute to reveal ANYTHING for fear of having the idea stolen by competitors. They recently even insisted that Miyamoto can no longer discuss his hobbies because they're afraid of the competition getting ideas based upon that.

I don't think it's at all unreasonable to suggest that this same company doesn't want video containing their proprietary development hardware being displayed publicly.

 

Blue Section

Miyamoto had a hand in the development but he didn't make the game.  I'm trying to minimize his roll in the game, but by far the vast amount of the effort in that game is due to Retro.  It would be a completely different game (for better or worse, who knows) if anyone else besides Retro made the game.  I happen to know people that work there and they had a large amount of creative control in the game.

So yes, the comparison is still fine.  You asked for a studio that has never made a game before and guess what, they hadn't.

Green Section

It's funny you talk about Braid's long troubled past.  Why?  Because you're thinking Sadness will be terrible because all it's troubles.  Why is Braid different from Sadness?  Because you think the guy who made it is rich (getting 180k in loans isn't real hard, paying it back is the hard part)? 

As for how hard you think Sadness is hard to develop, nothing in it is particularly difficult. 

20 hours?  With the amount of time they've had, no problem.
10 ending? Again, they've had time so nothing special
Art style?  As long as they have good artists, they're fine.
Story?  Again, good people, good story.

I'm not saying Sadness is going to be amazing, I'm just saying your points are idiotic.

Red section

Well I work for a studio that has made Wii games but the easiest way to show you how silly you are:

http://images.google.com/images?q=wii%20dev%20kit&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

So yeah, there is nothing against showing a dev kit and I completely fail to see the logic why you would even think that.  So before you state a fact and then try to defend that fact still knowing nothing, do research.



 

twesterm on 22 August 2008
Smash_Brother said:
Gnizmo said:

 Given that he is currently working on the Ghost Busters video game I am going to say he has signed far more than you. Also, it is absolutely ridiculous to think the showing of a simple piece of hardware would be banned. There is no great secret that will be revealed by seeing the outside of a dev kit that exists in plenty of places through-out the industry. There are likely thousands of people who could go snap a photo of it with relative ease if they wanted to, and so putting some big secret on the outside of the box would just be stupid.

 

There's a big fat warning on the front of the box that says "Confidential Property of Nintendo, Not for Release" as in "public release" as in "public viewing".

I don't know if they've revoked any developer licenses as a result, but I'm sure Nintendo is NOT fond of NDEVs being displayed in any public medium.

Though, Nnoo also had their NDEV pictured in an issue of GamesTM so maybe NoE is more lenient on this (as Nibris is also presumably licensed under NoE as well).

And no, unless he's the CEO of the company, he might not have signed one at all as companies sign their own internal NDAs. A license agreement only requires an NDA to be signed by one person who represents the organization.

 

lol that's what you're going off of?  That means you can't sell it.  It's not that hard to understand.

And every employee of every studio signs an NDA.  It's what keeps me (well, that and the fear of losing my job if I did tell you all the company secrets) from telling you every single little detail I could go on and on about.  I don't know why I would have to be a CEO to have an NDA about a Wii, Hell, I have a 360 dev kit sitting in my office.