By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Developers Survey - 73% working on 360, 58% working on PS3, 42% on Wii

gebx said:
% of developers questions

1) Aren't PS3 developing teams bigger then 360's? wouldn't that mean even more games will be console exclusive to the 360? And even more so for the Wii??

2) The survey applied to mostly European and NA developers, how much would Japanese developers skew these results and too which side?

 

1) Nope. More manpower isn't what solves the PS3 development difficulty. You just need people who can think outside the box a little. Throwing more engineers at the problem doesn't help at all. Developer's just need to put a little more thought into engine design for the PS3 than the 360. Being a "more difficult platform to developer on" doesn't mean you need to spend more money developing for it... it means you need to much more picky with your hiring practices -- especially at the senior engineer level. This isn't an easy task in the games industry, I can assure you. The good news is that, for cross-platform engines, the extra engine design work isn't wasted effort, since its been shown many times over that by developing applications to use parallelism efficiently you're going to perform better on the 3-core, no branch prediction, no out-of-order instructions 360 as well.

* You write your engine to use a primary thread + OS thread. There are 2 HW threads on PS3 PPU -- each one about 70% as fast as a single 360 core, all things accounted for, and just one core on the 360 can handle both these threads. I say 70% as fast, because each HW thread on the PPU runs at 50% the clockrate of the 360 cores, but, by nature, they spend a lot less time waiting on expensive performance issues, like cache misses.. especially if the 360 core is having to do SW multithreading.

* You use between 2 (360 -- faster job allocation, bigger cache/workspace, no real need to stream data) or 6 (PS3 -- slower job allocation, but faster, and more numerous, processors and the ability to stream data independantly) more threads for other tasks that will be easily sped up by mathematically-intensive parallelism (examples: animation, physics, particles, and some parts of the rendering pipeline).

This 2 vs 6 "helper" threads concept is the basic reason the PS3 can outperform the 360 in some circumstances (where animation, physics, particles, etc. are a performance bottleneck), and, at the same time, the relative simplicity of the 360 architecture is what allows less skilled developers to write a decently performing app on it, but not on the PS3 without some extra thought and design.

* Caveat: I guess you could claim that, its possible that PS3 developers need more/better tools to write their apps, if they are not doing cross-platform games, or do not have a PC version of their game engine. Better tools does actually require a few more engineers in most cases, but that's not a whole lot, in the grand scheme of product development, and its an investment in the engine -- you don't need to keep building new tools with every game you build from the same engine.

2) I'm sure Japanese devs would favor the Wii, and to a lesser extent, the PS3. Although many of the large Japanese dev hosues (the ones that do a lot of business overseas, of course) are obviously taking the 360 very seriously. Being able to have an engine which runs on a multi-core PC and the 360 early on, is a pretty big boon to early development, and I'm sure that's appealing to any developer, no matter where they hail from.



Around the Network
shio said:
gebx said:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=19672

The in-depth 180-page report was compiled by surveying almost 2,000 video game professionals from North America and beyond who read Gamasutra.com or subscribe to Game Developer magazine.

Overall, 70% of those replying are making games on the PC or Mac, with 43% creating for console and 28% for web platforms - with just 16% making games for handheld platforms such as the DS or PSP.

Of the surveyed console developers, which represent a notable cross-section of the entire industry, 73% are creating games for Xbox 360, 58% for the PlayStation 3, and 42% for the Wii - with 15% still creating games for the PlayStation 2

This implies that the greatest amount of Western console developers by sheer numbers are creating games for Microsoft's console - but due to team size differences, this doesn't necessarily imply that more games will appear on the Xbox 360 than other consoles.

So each platform gets:

70% are PC games

31.4% are X360 games

28% are Web platform games (which is to say, they're almost all for PC)

25% are PS3 games

18% are Wii games

16% are DS/PSP games

15% are PS2 games

 

PC Crushes!!!

Everyone knows PC gaming is dying.  Your numbers are all lies!

 



this gonna be much better for the ps3 next year



elgefe02 said:
SO companies dont like MOney?

Look like that.

 



crumas2 said:
scottie said:
Nicely glossed over - "surveying almost 2,000 video game professionals from North America "

I'm just throwing this out there, I do not care what American game developers do.

 

"from North America and beyond"


That just means that the vast majority are North American, but there are a few here and there that aren't. But it's still very heavily biased to NA. Coincidentally, the 360 has always catered nearly purely to the Western gamer. Finally, 2 + 2 = ?

 SW-5120-1900-6153

Around the Network

Ah North American Developers, a day late and a dollar short.



thetonestarr said:
crumas2 said:
scottie said:
Nicely glossed over - "surveying almost 2,000 video game professionals from North America "

I'm just throwing this out there, I do not care what American game developers do.

 

"from North America and beyond"


 

That just means that the vast majority are North American, but there are a few here and there that aren't. But it's still very heavily biased to NA. Coincidentally, the 360 has always catered nearly purely to the Western gamer. Finally, 2 + 2 = ?

4! Do I get a cake?

Sure lets say NA developers are 360 bias, but then you could argue that the vast majority of European developers  are PC-centric? The same PC-centric studios that have been announcing PC/360 games.



Proud Member of GAIBoWS (Gamers Against Irrational Bans of Weezy & Squilliam)

                   

Onimusha12 said:
Ah North American Developers, a day late and a dollar short.

 

NA devs make the best shooters, sports, and action/adventure games.  If those genres come from somewhere other than NA, they suck.  I'd say that, in "a fire" and given the chance, the RPGs I would save would pretty much all be WRPGs from NA too, despite my love for the immature plots, and exceedingly uninventive design of JRPGs.

NA devs invented most of the genres we see today (well... an awful lot come from the UK, as well), and still set the bar, despite the bad economics of using a NA developer these days.  Some Asian dev studios have broken that mold (mostly 1st party devs, which means they have titanic financial support...  SM64 cost some $30mil USD, which was monstrous back then), but its still the NA devs I have the most respect for, and the reasons why don't seem to be changing anytime soon.



It takes less people to work on your average wii game then HD game.

Like less then half...

interestingly PS3 teams are supposidly bigger then 360.

Carmack has twice as many devs on Rage PS3 then Rage 360.

Of course... not everyone does double development teams like that.

So it could just be a lot of people are making 360 games, and less are porting it over to PS3.

Interesting article though.



why dont 3 parties care about the wii? It should be more wii focused, but now the wii has an image that scares developers away. most devs make casual titles nowadays :S

even the mighty nintendo has shifted their attention to the non gamers or casuals lately. anyways 3 partys are scared always!!

If nintendo makes good games: "Oh no their games are excellent we cant compete with them. we wont develop for the wii"

If nintendo makes casual and low budget games like they are doing now: "wii is for casuals and core games barely sell. we will focus on casuals now, even if we never attempted to make a good core game."

wii will always lose.