:)

What am I going to do now?

From the article:

"A sudden evaporation of confidence bodes badly for Nintendo's ability to keep its attach rate, or the number of games sold divided by the number of systems sold, high. This is especially rotten news for third party publishers that already have trouble competing with Nintendo's first party offerings. In short, driving the gamers away means driving away game designers as well."

Okay...  Per the article, Nintendo isn't putting out enough hardcore games.  Thus, the 3rd party publishers doing hardcore games are going to suffer, since, ummm... gamers will look at those h/c games and not buy them because the casual 1st party offerings of Nintendo are doing so much better???

Even tho, somehow it's not the casual gamers buying the casual games, since they only have Wii Sports stuck in their Wii and can't figure out how to get it out?

And the fad comment.  *nods*  Have to agree with that.  After all, it was predicted (by someone, somewhere, don't have the link, of course) that the DS was a fad.  And sure enough, in Japan, now that it is at market saturation, the sales have stalled.  Just like a fad would.  Wii will probably 'fad-out' the same way.

My post was just an example.  It wasn't a knock on the PS3.  I fully intend to buy a PS3 soon.

And normally I wouldn't want to take this too off-topic but the topic itself sorta died when madskills got banned so whatever.  I disagree with your analysis of the Wii situation.  Nintendo isn't taking the core for granted and only throwing them a game here and there.  Less than two years in to the Wii cycle and we've already gotten SMG, Zelda:TP, MK:Wii, SSBB, FE:RD, MP3, and SPM.  And those are just the first party core games.  Sony and MS can't touch that lineup.  It's definitely debatable which console has better overall exclusives as some people will prefer each companies' lineups, but as far as first party games go Nintendo has given the core gamer more than the competitors have.

Sure they are also appealing to the casual but it is not at the expense of the core gamer.  It's not like the GC or N64 got better "core gamer" support.  People are just distracted by how many casual games there are but it doesn't matter if core games are a smaller %, all I care about is the raw numbers.  I don't play crap shovelware anyway so who cares if it's just a few titles or a few hundred?  I'll keep enjoying the quality games.

I already pointed out above why I think Nintendo's 1st party lineup not only rivals Sony's but destroys it.  People need to realize the difference between first party games and exclusives.  The only first party games I can think of for the PS3 are Motorstorm, GT5:P, and Uncharted.  Insomniac games aren't first party as they are an independent developer.

As to new IPs.... RolStoppable already touched on that.  Just a few days ago another forum user mentioned how it would suck if there was no Starfox Wii.  People are complaining about some old IPs that haven't gotten the Wii treatment and Nintendo has to go through so many of them before they can focus on more but in the mean time there are the Wii-line casual oriented titles and others tailored to the core like Disaster: DOC, and of course third party new IPs like Mad World, Conduit, etc...

As my 8th year of college draws to a close, I'll have a film degree.

Then I'll get a job!

As a big time Hollywood director!

Hahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahaha!!!!

I'm sorry I wasn't here for the fun. madkiller's "butthurt" exceeds even that of the author in the OP. Or perhaps it's just more obvious since he only does well in debates that take the form of standardized tests.

It always amazes me how someone with a college education can, upon entering the Internet, somehow become unable to handle civil discussion and rational debate at a level that valued members of VGChartz as young as 12 or less have no problem with.

Sooo...

This article, while extreme, does bring up some points.

A) People were really quick to forgive Nintendo for not showing any "core" games at E3 when Miyamoto said that Pikmin 3 was in development. It does show some sort of blind allegiance to Nintendo when you can announce a game, and people are instantly over what you did to them a few hours ago. Sony got more flak from showing a (maybe) CG trailer of MAG than Miyamoto did for announcing a game that no one has seen. Weird.

B) Somehow, E3 is dead. I mean, apparently it's for "t3h casuals" now. Or at least many Wii owners would have me to believe that. I mean, I don't remember seeing MS show off Gears 2 or Fable 2, or seeing Fallout 3, Resi 5, Killzone 2, Resistance 2, FFXIII, etc. etc. etc. I mean, just because Nintendo didn't show any "core" games, E3 is dead? Very weird indeed. I wish I could call E3 dead whenever my company of choice has a bad press conference. It'd be golden. I'm not gonna argue about E3 being dead or not, but if every gaming website on earth is there, I'm gonna stick with the idea that it's for the gamers. Excuse me for not agreeing on that.

C) While I do not agree that the Wii mote is useless, or anything like that, Nintendo does have a bad habit of releasing add-ons and peripherals out the wazoo. I mean, the Wii Zapper hasn't even been used in many games, only two (and Links Crossbow Training), The Wii Wheel is only for MK Wii, The balance board is a good peripheral, but having to use it in tandem with the Wii Remote for some games is kinda dumb. And with Wii Motion plus being announced and no devs knowing about it, I fail to see how successful they feel the add-on will be with an MSRP of 30 dollars, and no games that utilize it, save for Wii Sports: Resort.

That's it.

A poorly written article, and a little extreme, but he does have some points.

Another article of an uninformed person, or perhaps another article from a well paid person who works for sony or ms.

There are many good Wii games on the shelves and there are many more in the pipeline. But some people ignore this fact and looks only at the shovelware.

Potentially Top-Wii Games for the second half of 2008 (not all, only a selection of what is coming):

• de Blob
• Star Wars: Force Unleashed
• Star Wars: Clone Wars
• Ferraric Challenge
• Deadly Creatures
• Sam&Max
• Runaway: The Dream of the Turtle
• Brothers in Arms:Double Time
• Crash Bandicoot: Mind over Mutant
• Call of Duty:World at War
• Kings Story
• Fifa 09
• Tomb Raider Underworld
• Monster Lab
• Wario Land Shake
• Mushroom Men
• Animal Crossing
• Dead Rising

And for 2009:

• Mad World
• The Conduit
• Fragile: Farewell Ruins of the Moon
• Arc Rise Fantasia
• The Sky Crawlers
• James Bond: Quantum of Solace
• Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
• Moto GP 09
• Tenchu 4
• Castlevania Judgement
• Fatal Frame
• Disaster: Day of Crisis
• Rygar - The Battle of Argus
• Rune Factory
• Spore Wii

The missing in action John Lucas here to add a little commentary about all this hardcore business.

I see no problem.

The industry is evolving and I guess some don't like its evolution.

I evolved from the arcade days where everything was about raw skill & high scores to the days when it was all about "beating the boss" and "getting to the end" to enjoying the intro and watching the cutscenes.

I enjoy videogaming in its ability to stay relevant with the times and continue to move forward. The games made 10 years ago won't have the same impact today if done in exactly the same way.

The problem I see in these kinds of attitudes towards videogaming's direction is people tend to want to separate the hobby from real life so much. It IS an escape from day to day reality which is part of its draw but there's a such thing as going too far.

I like how gaming is trying to better integrate into real life and not take you away from it all the time. There's a need for variety. People who are out of grade school often find themselves with more money and much less time and don't have the ability to invest so much energy into videogaming. When in school they had all the time and none of the money so they can immerse themselves into all things gaming.

People are taking this too seriously. Sean Malstrom's Theory of Cycles is true. Gaming changes direction about every 10 years. Arcadey stuff didn't have the same impact it did in the early 1980's as it did in the mid 1990's. Games with movie-like ambience and feel took over by that time and high scores and scoring period was totally pointless. It was about watching the experience more than breaking your hands to execute some difficult gaming manuever.

The Legend of Zelda from 1986 is a totally different approach than The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time from 1998.

Sean Malstrom's Theory of Cycles explains this perfectly.

Now people are spending less time getting all caught up in cutscenes rather enjoying the interactive qualities of the game. Guitar Hero and Rock Band don't sell because it has the "hottest graphics" or the most cutscenes. Those games sell because people enjoy the feeling of being a rock star playing on a guitar. Wii Sports moves Wiis not just because it happens to be packed in the box but people enjoy physically playing an approximation of tennis, baseball, bowling, golf, boxing as if they were really the athletes.

Games are focusing more on the social/interactive/life-affirming aspects rather than just the living storybook soundtrack movie experience we've seen since the mid 1990's.

Those who complain have not gotten over the evolution and probably didn't like the last evolution from the arcadey to the movie-like feel.

I'm the guy who likes playing a game like Super Smash Bros. Melee and from the trophies on that game I discovered this game called Animal Crossing which lends itself to the current state of the industry. Animal Crossing had no set point or objective or goal. The game is all about how you define the experience with affixed objects and routines. That house will always be there and that trail will always go that way but how will you operate yourself in these defined environments. A game that has no "hours of play" descriptives because it can possibly be "decades of play". You can invest as much or as little time as you want into it whether minutes or hours. Playing every day on the day or just once a week. A game that encourages you connect to other people using the game as an excuse to socialize. A game that teaches you the importance of communicating with others—the animals who get mad if you don't speak with them on a regular basis. A game designed not to quarantine you from real life but work around your real life and give you the choice to join the escapade.

Labels are limiting and the language you use can define the way you think. There IS no such thing as hardcore or casual really. There are different types of games which people can play a lot or a little. Some who play Brain Age as religiously as one who would play Oblivion religiously. Some who play Wii Play every now and then as much as somebody who plays Grand Theft Auto every now and then.

The simple fact of the matter is those who choose to gripe and complain about the way the industry is going need to vote with their wallets. Games won't get made as much if they don't sell. If the self-described "hardcore" are so worried about the way the industry is going then why has the XBox 360, the American home of the hardcore, levelled off? It's stagnant and is getting caught by Sony slowly but surely. Sony who bungled so badly the past couple of years is starting to mount a comeback. Games like Little Big Planet shows that Sony is addressing head on where this industry is headed.

Why didn't GTA4 bounce up the hardware sales of the XBox 360 & PS3 like Mario Kart Wii and Wii Fit do for the Wii?

If they think the games they like are going by the wayside then they need to buy them to keep them on the market. Businesses understand money better than anything. If it still sells, it will still be made.

A poster here used a phrase in his signature I wrote once called: The Hardcore Of A Peach Is The Pit. Try To Get The Whole Fruit.

The clubhouse is over and it needs to be that way. Time to get some fresh air and sunshine. Let new people join this club. Latin died as a language because it became too exclusive. Things must be open and shared if you are looking for a sustained presence. Inclusiveness is the way now. Full inclusiveness not just selective inclusiveness. Not just teens instead of the kids before. Not just adult males instead of the teen boys before. EVERYBODY. Girls. Women. Old people. Everybody. There's something for EVERYBODY.

If Nintendo doesn't have what you're looking for then there is the competition and competition exists for this reason. No more will bigger budgeted games be made to sell the same sales margins as when big budget costed less. Selling $10 goods for a $20 profit won't work when you want to sell $15 goods for the same $20 profit.

Things are changing and people have to get used to it. No everything won't be simple simon because people have different tastes. But simple simon exists because people want simple simon. Fight game enthusiasts hated the simplification of fighting game controls complexified by the revolutionary Street Fighter which allowed formerly new players to deepen their skill. After a while the complicated control schemes locked new people out of this fun fest and fighting games weren't making as much money in the arcades. The arcades largely died out because that particular formula wasn't working anymore. This is why it took so long for a Street Fighter IV to come out as opposed to the others.

In about 10 or 15 more years the industry will adapt again to a new regime. Can't be stagnant. You gotta adapt.

John Lucas

What's all the fuzz about?

Nintendo is just both hardcore and casual these days. Please stop crying Nintendo isn't hardcore only anymore. Instead look at all the cool hardcore games Nintendo has given us in less than 2 years!