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Forums - Sony Discussion - the Blu-ray thread, will go on untill hddvds death.

LordTheNightKnight said:
jphuff said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
bbsin said:
Man, I was never into this Blu-ray vs HDDVD war ever since i sold all my Sony shares during a mini Asia stock market crash months ago. But is LordTheNightKnight always this bitter? It seems like you really try to go out on a limb when you tell everyone how less you think anything pro-Bluray matters and seem to always be on the negative side of the "blu-ray" spectrum....

anyways, we all know there will be a time where the majority of consumers move on to HD video and broadcasting, having only one format will speed things up.

I'm actually not that bitter about blu-ray. The format has promise, and if HD-DVD were to finally go, I hope the BDA can merge some of the advantages of HD-DVD into blu-ray's tech (Warner might even push for that, since they apparently have some patents there).

I'm more bitter about lying jerks pretending this is some kind of contest, and ignoring facts they don't like. The fact is that we haven't seen either format with an opening over 200k (or 170k depending on Transformers disputed opening), and I'm not even sure a single HDM as sold 1 million copies so far, as neither format has touted such a number (and I think we know they would). With movie sales still in this niche, can Warner's switch really get HDM into the mainstream?

I would think finally having must-have films in HD would matter first, and that has yet to happen. Neither format has its Matrix 1 yet. And I know why that was the first must-have for DVD. It's a film some wanted to watch over and over again to catch everything, and never having to rewind was a big thing for that kind of film. In other words, the nature of the film watching experience went hand-in-hand with the format. We have yet to see a film do that for HD, not to the mainstream.

 

 

Me, I don't have either format because I haven't seen a must-have HD film. The closest were Goodfells and Casino, but the fact that thare are just on HD-DVD is irrelevant, since I don't think those are enough for me to abandon regular DVD. The Simpsons Movie would have been the first blu-ray I would want, but Fox blew it by not having any HD exclusive features, even PiP.


I understand what you mean about HD-DVD's advantages. From the start, it was more technically mature than BD. It's taken about a year for the 1.1 to come out and equalize things there in regards to PIP, etc. Frankly, I would have taken either format (I own both players) without crying, although I preferred BD simply for the extra storage space and scratch protection. Since I knew the PIP and stuff was coming, that wasn't a big deal for me since like you've noted, BOTH techs were in their infancy and no where near really "counting" compared to SD-DVD.

Regardless, I'm glad it's over. And it IS basically over. This will quickly erode HD-DVD's support although I don't think it will disappear entirely. It may well end up like Beta-max, having a niche and quietly successful market. Where it's lost is in the mainstream.

Indeed, there IS that question as to whether and how quickly HD media will become mainstream. You mentioned the "must have" title on HD media. Personally, I'm surprised that the Harry Potter movies weren't it, at least not apparently. Although it must be considered that there simply aren't even enough HD media players of either type sold to realistically generate a lot of movie sales. (No, you can't count all the PS3's as BD movie players for this purpose, if they WERE being used to a large extent for movie watching, sales figures for movies would be much higher!)

I had wondered what was going on with player sales. Anecdotal while it might be, in all my shopping trips this Xmas I saw plenty of Toshiba HD-DVD boxes in shopping carts, but surprisingly (to me) many more carts with the Sony BD players in them. Knew that didn't necessarily indicate worldwide performance, but apparently there WAS a higher number of stand alone players sold. Particularly surprising given the at least $100 premium people had to pay for a BD player.

Anyway, 2008 should be interesting. With one format (at least mostly, after May), that "customer confusion" should be gone as long as advertising does it's job and we should see media and hardware sales rise quite a bit more than they have over the past two years. If not, HD formats may have a problem. If HD media and hardware hasn't started to show a real presence by mid 2009, it will be a REAL problem, at least IMO. I'm not saying they'll take over SD DVD that quickly, I just mean having sales figures that really matter. As you noted, the 1 or 2% of SD DVD sales that are generated right now by "hit" BD or HD-DVD movies in their first months is pathetic and really of no consequence.

In a way, I think the slow sales of both formats actually hurt HD-DVD the most and may have forced Warner's (and others like Universal when their contract is up) to switch. It cost studios more money to produce the two separate versions of movies and low sales figures meant basically little to no return on that investment. With BD selling 2 or 3 to 1 over HD-DVD, it simply outlined to them the money they were losing in supporting both formats. So I think they've cut their losses in the hope that by throwing all their marketing and other dollars behind one format that they can push it into public acceptance and mass adoption all the quicker. Thoughts?


I don't think it was cutting their losses as much as hoping to increase adoption. An Associated Press report states that total (either this year or since launch) blu-ray movie sales were $169 million, while HD-DVD was just over $100 million (search for this on Yahoo news). So the sales of both were closer than some would think.

I still wonder how Warner thinks this format war is hurting adoption, in spite or recent reports saying most people aren't aware of it.


No one said blu-ray was dominating before, that's why Warner contributing to the end of the format war is such a huge deal.  We no longer have to wait for combo players to drop in price.

Blu-ray has consistently sold about than 60-70% every week this past year, despite most owners being videogame console owners.  The lead was there, but not absolute.  Warner is trying to accelerate the adoption of 1 format to speed the adoption of HD as a whole and lessen confusion.

Now if only this had happened before Paramount was bought until 2009... 



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windbane said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
jphuff said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
bbsin said:
Man, I was never into this Blu-ray vs HDDVD war ever since i sold all my Sony shares during a mini Asia stock market crash months ago. But is LordTheNightKnight always this bitter? It seems like you really try to go out on a limb when you tell everyone how less you think anything pro-Bluray matters and seem to always be on the negative side of the "blu-ray" spectrum....

anyways, we all know there will be a time where the majority of consumers move on to HD video and broadcasting, having only one format will speed things up.

I'm actually not that bitter about blu-ray. The format has promise, and if HD-DVD were to finally go, I hope the BDA can merge some of the advantages of HD-DVD into blu-ray's tech (Warner might even push for that, since they apparently have some patents there).

I'm more bitter about lying jerks pretending this is some kind of contest, and ignoring facts they don't like. The fact is that we haven't seen either format with an opening over 200k (or 170k depending on Transformers disputed opening), and I'm not even sure a single HDM as sold 1 million copies so far, as neither format has touted such a number (and I think we know they would). With movie sales still in this niche, can Warner's switch really get HDM into the mainstream?

I would think finally having must-have films in HD would matter first, and that has yet to happen. Neither format has its Matrix 1 yet. And I know why that was the first must-have for DVD. It's a film some wanted to watch over and over again to catch everything, and never having to rewind was a big thing for that kind of film. In other words, the nature of the film watching experience went hand-in-hand with the format. We have yet to see a film do that for HD, not to the mainstream.

 

 

Me, I don't have either format because I haven't seen a must-have HD film. The closest were Goodfells and Casino, but the fact that thare are just on HD-DVD is irrelevant, since I don't think those are enough for me to abandon regular DVD. The Simpsons Movie would have been the first blu-ray I would want, but Fox blew it by not having any HD exclusive features, even PiP.


I understand what you mean about HD-DVD's advantages. From the start, it was more technically mature than BD. It's taken about a year for the 1.1 to come out and equalize things there in regards to PIP, etc. Frankly, I would have taken either format (I own both players) without crying, although I preferred BD simply for the extra storage space and scratch protection. Since I knew the PIP and stuff was coming, that wasn't a big deal for me since like you've noted, BOTH techs were in their infancy and no where near really "counting" compared to SD-DVD.

Regardless, I'm glad it's over. And it IS basically over. This will quickly erode HD-DVD's support although I don't think it will disappear entirely. It may well end up like Beta-max, having a niche and quietly successful market. Where it's lost is in the mainstream.

Indeed, there IS that question as to whether and how quickly HD media will become mainstream. You mentioned the "must have" title on HD media. Personally, I'm surprised that the Harry Potter movies weren't it, at least not apparently. Although it must be considered that there simply aren't even enough HD media players of either type sold to realistically generate a lot of movie sales. (No, you can't count all the PS3's as BD movie players for this purpose, if they WERE being used to a large extent for movie watching, sales figures for movies would be much higher!)

I had wondered what was going on with player sales. Anecdotal while it might be, in all my shopping trips this Xmas I saw plenty of Toshiba HD-DVD boxes in shopping carts, but surprisingly (to me) many more carts with the Sony BD players in them. Knew that didn't necessarily indicate worldwide performance, but apparently there WAS a higher number of stand alone players sold. Particularly surprising given the at least $100 premium people had to pay for a BD player.

Anyway, 2008 should be interesting. With one format (at least mostly, after May), that "customer confusion" should be gone as long as advertising does it's job and we should see media and hardware sales rise quite a bit more than they have over the past two years. If not, HD formats may have a problem. If HD media and hardware hasn't started to show a real presence by mid 2009, it will be a REAL problem, at least IMO. I'm not saying they'll take over SD DVD that quickly, I just mean having sales figures that really matter. As you noted, the 1 or 2% of SD DVD sales that are generated right now by "hit" BD or HD-DVD movies in their first months is pathetic and really of no consequence.

In a way, I think the slow sales of both formats actually hurt HD-DVD the most and may have forced Warner's (and others like Universal when their contract is up) to switch. It cost studios more money to produce the two separate versions of movies and low sales figures meant basically little to no return on that investment. With BD selling 2 or 3 to 1 over HD-DVD, it simply outlined to them the money they were losing in supporting both formats. So I think they've cut their losses in the hope that by throwing all their marketing and other dollars behind one format that they can push it into public acceptance and mass adoption all the quicker. Thoughts?


I don't think it was cutting their losses as much as hoping to increase adoption. An Associated Press report states that total (either this year or since launch) blu-ray movie sales were $169 million, while HD-DVD was just over $100 million (search for this on Yahoo news). So the sales of both were closer than some would think.

I still wonder how Warner thinks this format war is hurting adoption, in spite or recent reports saying most people aren't aware of it.


No one said blu-ray was dominating before,

Plenty of people here claimed it. I'm not denying blu-ray has been in the lead. It's just those that claimed domination, and there are some on this thread, I was referring to. It didn't even have much of a point, just a factoid I threw out there.

that's why Warner contributing to the end of the format war is such a huge deal.

No, it was the fact that it was the last neutral studio that made it a big deal.

We no longer have to wait for combo players to drop in price.

Um, by now, you could have just gotten two players for less anyway.

Blu-ray has consistently sold about than 60-70% every week this past year, despite most owners being videogame console owners. The lead was there, but not absolute. Warner is trying to accelerate the adoption of 1 format to speed the adoption of HD as a whole and lessen confusion.

Why do you think I'm not aware of those points? I was just pointing out some revenue figures. Why do you think that means I'm somehow unaware of the percentage lead, and Warner's stated reason for the switch?

Now if only this had happened before Paramount was bought until 2009...

 

A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Yeah you could have gotten both players for cheaper than a combo player since combo players existed, but if combo players dropped to near the price of either format it would have been worth it assuming both formats still had exclusive content.

Now, hopefully we won't have to wait for that and PS3 owners will be good to go with their blu-ray player and just miss out on some movies the last few years that might eventually see blu-ray releases anyway. 



Lordoftheknight-  You're right about the figure of people not being aware of the HD formats.  I do remember reading some things however stating that OF those people who WERE aware of the HD formats there was reluctance to make a decision over the two competing formats.  Don't have the links to those, however.  Regardless, Warner must have had SOME basis in this regard, don't you think?

I also agree about the dual format players as long as they FULLY support both formats.  I was going to buy that first dual format player (I think it was LG's?) until I found that it didn't support HD-DVD extra features.  LAME!  I always wanted a dual format player though so I could have just ONE device for all my HD movie needs.  Unfortunately, I don't think there will be a lot of incentive in that direction now...although I hope I'm wrong.  I'd still like one to support both formats until there truly is only one left that's available in the marketplace. 



Just looked at Amazon Bestsellers in DVD rankings there are
only 2 HD-DVD's in the top 100.
There are over  25+ Blu_ray's in the top 100 including holding 4 of the top 5 discs !
the top disk is still a normal DVD in fact the top selling Planet Earth - way to go BBC

Even Warners Planet Earth Which apparently did well in HD-DVD intially has dropped down to 35.
It's is ranked below the Blu-ray Planet Earth version which has risen to 24.

The only other HD-DVD disk is blade-runner down at 70 something.

No wonder Warner have gon Blu-ray exclusive.

No ones buying HD-DVD it's fallen into obscurity allready !
Blu-Ray The format with the greatest storage capacity truly has the upper hand,

Also noted on wiki that blu-ray players can all do 100Gb 4 layer with a firmware update as if there is ever a need for more storage.

hmm why do 1080p24 when we could goto 1080p60 in stereo  vision - blu-ray can have the space.



PS3 number 1 fan

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I guess this means my Blade Runner collectors sets will go up in value that that it will become extra rare?



 

 

 

 

 

BD movies are up in rankings because of the ongoing BOGO sale at amazon.



Currently loving my Wii x2, Xbox 360 Pro & Xbox 360 Arcade, and Final Fantasy 7 Advent Children Limited "Cloud Black" 160GB PS3

GAMEFLY & GOOZEX FTW

 

 

 

 

I'm really just posting here to make it my 250th post.



Since my last post here more than a month ago I am not surprised to see that LTNK is still up on a soapbox on this thread

So as fodder for his painstaking, multi-quote, multi-responses I have a point to make about this line in his signature

"People aren't going to magically become aware of blu-ray if HD-DVD goes away."

The point being, as I mentioned in my last post, on February 17, 2009, broadcast television is mandated to switch to an exclusively digital signal...

which will render millions of standard-def TV's currently in use obsolete within little more than a year. Many of the owners of these sets will opt for a digital-to-analog converter box; many more will simply buy an SDTV with a digital tuner. But others will likely feel if they're gonna get an HDTV, it might as well be then. Even if it's a low percentage, it will likely be in the millions. The number of american TV households that are digital capable only just crossed the halfway point as this link attests:

http://www.ce.org/Press/CurrentNews/press_release_detail.asp?id=11425


At the same time there are a lot of people with HDTV's that don't use them for HD, according to this Nielsen report:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6495849.html

These people are likely to start viewing HD after the switch to digital helps bring broadcast HD into wider use.

The same report estimates only 15 million households have HDTV's. I think that by February 2009 the number of HDTV's in use in the U.S. is likely to increase by 50% or even double. That's a lot of people with potential to be interested in blu-ray, especially if it's the only format left. No magic needed.



Kozz said:
Since my last post here more than a month ago I am not surprised to see that LTNK is still up on a soapbox on this thread

So as fodder for his painstaking, multi-quote, multi-responses I have a point to make about this line in his signature

"People aren't going to magically become aware of blu-ray if HD-DVD goes away."

The point being, as I mentioned in my last post, on February 17, 2009, broadcast television is mandated to switch to an exclusively digital signal...

which will render millions of standard-def TV's currently in use obsolete within little more than a year. Many of the owners of these sets will opt for a digital-to-analog converter box; many more will simply buy an SDTV with a digital tuner. But others will likely feel if they're gonna get an HDTV, it might as well be then. Even if it's a low percentage, it will likely be in the millions. The number of american TV households that are digital capable only just crossed the halfway point as this link attests:

http://www.ce.org/Press/CurrentNews/press_release_detail.asp?id=11425


At the same time there are a lot of people with HDTV's that don't use them for HD, according to this Nielsen report:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6495849.html

These people are likely to start viewing HD after the switch to digital helps bring broadcast HD into wider use.

The same report estimates only 15 million households have HDTV's. I think that by February 2009 the number of HDTV's in use in the U.S. is likely to increase by 50% or even double. That's a lot of people with potential to be interested in blu-ray, especially if it's the only format left. No magic needed.

That will just make people switch to hi-def televisions, not to hi-def films. You still haven't proved one come with the other. You just assume. 



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs