Yes, and the reason for that is because an HD-DVD drive in the 360 now would not be nearly as effective as it would have been if Microsoft had just included it from the start. I am also assuming that they would not put an HD-DVD drive in every version, and because of that, the new rumored "Ultimate" would boost HD-DVD somewhat, but it wouldn't be much more effective than the add-on is now.

No, the reason you stated was that Microsoft didn't do it before. You just switched to a different reason, and aren't even proving it, because you don't know whether putting it in now would or wouldn't work. None of us know. We can make guesses, but that's all they'll be.

 Yes, and then I said, "an HD-DVD drive in the 360 now would not be nearly as effective as it would have been if Microsoft had just included it from the start." I am saying that IF they put one in now, as is rumored with the "Ultimate" that it would not be as effective as it could have been if they had put it in from the start. So I don't see how I switched to a different reason. The first post, I said that Microsoft didn't, and the second one I said that if they were to put one in now, it would not be as effective.

 and yes that is all speculation, but I don't think it would be as effective. It would raise the price, unless MS was willing to take a big loss, and that would drive more people away to the lower end models unless they wanted the drive. and in that case, they could just buy the add-on and a lower end model. besides, the drive could not be used for games unless MS wanted to screw all the people who bought a 360 without a drive and make games that could only be played on that new model. if they did that, they might as well just wait for the next gen.

It seemed as though you were stating why Microsoft would not be serious about putting an HD-DVD drive in now, based solely on what happened before. Then you posted a comment about whether putting it in now would be effective, which is a likely result of putting it in the drive, not a reason for putting it in, which is what you seemed to be arguing. 

@LordTheNightKnight

ah, ok I see. that would be my fault for not clearing that up.

I am saying that it would be foolish of MS to put it in now, especially with Warner going Blu Ray exclusive, but if they did, I don't think it would be much more effective than the add-on is right now.

sorry about the confusion >_

First of all, I find I did that before, a LOT, so I try to make sure my points are clear.

Seond, by itself, it likely wouldn't help. It would be better coupled with something like movie price drops, or faster release output, or a greater marketing push. 

I understand what you mean about HD-DVD's advantages.  From the start, it was more technically mature than BD.  It's taken about a year for the 1.1 to come out and equalize things there in regards to PIP, etc.  Frankly, I would have taken either format (I own both players) without crying, although I preferred BD simply for the extra storage space and scratch protection.  Since I knew the PIP and stuff was coming, that wasn't a big deal for me since like you've noted, BOTH techs were in their infancy and no where near really "counting" compared to SD-DVD.

Regardless, I'm glad it's over.  And it IS basically over.  This will quickly erode HD-DVD's support although I don't think it will disappear entirely.  It may well end up like Beta-max, having a niche and quietly successful market.  Where it's lost is in the mainstream.

Indeed, there IS that question as to whether and how quickly HD media will become mainstream. You mentioned the "must have" title on HD media.  Personally, I'm surprised that the Harry Potter movies weren't it, at least not apparently.  Although it must be considered that there simply aren't even enough HD media players of either type sold to realistically generate a lot of movie sales. (No, you can't count all the PS3's as BD movie players for this purpose, if they WERE being used to a large extent for movie watching, sales figures for movies would be much higher!)

I had wondered what was going on with player sales.  Anecdotal while it might be, in all my shopping trips this Xmas I saw plenty of Toshiba HD-DVD boxes in shopping carts, but surprisingly (to me) many more carts with the Sony BD players in them.  Knew that didn't necessarily indicate worldwide performance, but apparently there WAS a higher number of stand alone players sold.  Particularly surprising given the at least $100 premium people had to pay for a BD player.

Anyway, 2008 should be interesting.  With one format (at least mostly, after May), that "customer confusion" should be gone as long as advertising does it's job and we should see media and hardware sales rise quite a bit more than they have over the past two years.  If not, HD formats may have a problem.  If HD media and hardware hasn't started to show a real presence by mid 2009, it will be a REAL problem, at least IMO.  I'm not saying they'll take over SD DVD that quickly, I just mean having sales figures that really matter.  As you noted, the 1 or 2% of SD DVD sales that are generated right now by "hit" BD or HD-DVD movies in their first months is pathetic and really of no consequence.

 In a way, I think the slow sales of both formats actually hurt HD-DVD the most and may have forced Warner's (and others like Universal when their contract is up) to switch.  It cost studios more money to produce the two separate versions of movies and low sales figures meant basically little to no return on that investment.  With BD selling 2 or 3 to 1 over HD-DVD, it simply outlined to them the money they were losing in supporting both formats.  So I think they've cut their losses in the hope that by throwing all their marketing and other dollars behind one format that they can push it into public acceptance and mass adoption all the quicker.  Thoughts? 

Ok... I'll kick off this song for HD-DVD.

Nah nah nah nah.... Nah nah nah nah....

HEEEEYYYY HEEEEYYYYY HEEEYYYYYY....

This thread will go on forever.

I don't think it was cutting their losses as much as hoping to increase adoption. An Associated Press report states that total (either this year or since launch) blu-ray movie sales were $169 million, while HD-DVD was just over $100 million (search for this on Yahoo news). So the sales of both were closer than some would think.

I still wonder how Warner thinks this format war is hurting adoption, in spite or recent reports saying most people aren't aware of it.