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Forums - Gaming - sony and microsoft/ nintendo switcheroo?

blink182 said:

just a thought i've been having which is possible but highly improbable. What if this e3 changes the perceptions of said companies in the eyes of the core gamer?

 

 Nothing is going to change.  The list of announced games and the ones being announced should be more than enough to make even the most ardent Nintendo fan realize that.  Fatal Frame 4 and a few other games aren't going to make the Wii competitive in the space you're talking about let alone put it in the lead.



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the wii is not popular because it is casual. It is popular because it is a toy, and a rather fun one at that.

Imagine a console that was in most retirement homes. Hospitals would have it for a fun way to retrain muscles and limbs that need to learn how to function again. Every radio show contest and school raffle are giving them away. Office break rooms have them because it is quick stress relief. 

None of these systems will ever hold more than 3 games in its disc reader.

Listen none of these places encourage core gaming. Ninty is not going to sell to a tenth of their market any core games they have lined up. This is not a digg, but a support for further points.

Sony and MS are into selling long games that require investment. The gamers want that. nobody in charge wants to see their respective consoles going out the door for contests and such. especially sony. sony needs a 3 attach rate to be profitable.

                              Ninty            360              PS3

Profit per console ***10******* 4 *******   -4

price ************10******* 7  *******  3

core gaming ******* 6 *******8   ******* 6

market share ******10 *******5   ****** 3

games per console ***4 ********7   ****** 4

 

as you can see from the charts wii is making a shitload of money. High attach rate is due to the geek fans who have everything from rayman and smash to wii fit.

in order to make up for ppc, 360 and ps3 have to sell more games. naturally this is more easily done with more market proliferation. However, that can't happen until price comes down. 

ps3 is looking for the fastest way to recoup losses. they are finding cheaper ways to make stuff. same goes for the 360.

These two consoles are trying to make their prices as low as possible because they will sell more games on a platform that is more regualarly purchased.

I'm sorry to make this one final point, but it is a true point. 

The Ninty sells because it is solid, that is true, but mostly because it is the cheapest of all the consoles. A game system needs to be 100-250 dollars. 

ps3 is on for a supposed 10 year run, so later on it might become a powerhouse console, but for now it is a long way off, and casual games are not the answer. The ninty isn't casual, it's affordable.



That sort of thing would take a good couple of years to switch around your image, not just a conference.



M$ is still going to take very good care of their main audience. They will probably try and expand into the casual market, very good business sense. The main audience will still receive massive games and the casuals(aka, my girlfriend) will get games they might want to play.



Impulsivity said:
libellule said:
Actually, They may want to go in this direction, particularly Sony/Ms that want to sell their console to the casual (biggest market)

BUT

I doubt any of the big 3 will succeed to change how it is view by the consumer :

MS/Sony will stay hardcore

Ninty will stay casual

At best, Ninty will get the multiplateform PS360 games that will become PS360+Wii
but hardcore will still buy PS360 while casual will keep on the Wii whatever S-mote/X-mote.

Thats not really true, at least the Sony part. Sony has always been hardcore at the start, everyone at the end. When the Playstations first come out they sell less and sell to a hardcore gamer market, then the price drops and they end as casual machines. I guarantee you very very few of the half a million people who buy a 129 dollar PS2 every month are buying it because they're "hardcore" gamers. Home, Little Big Planet and other releases will do a lot to join with Sing Star and other games like that to bring the PS3 down to casual gamers, especially when the price heads south of 300 dollars.

The Xbox is the hardcore only machine, there are very very few sales from anyone who doesn't play things like call of duty, halo and the rest, just like the original xbox never expanded beyond that demographic (hence the low sales). I don't see that changing any time soon especially when their big games for this year are action games and FPS games only. The 360 arcade costs about the same as the Wii and STILL noone buys it, casuals just don't buy MS gamerboy consoles, period.

As for the Wii I agree that it is the casual choice, they basically started at the PS2 stage of things and didn't even try to compete for the hardcore (as they had with the gamecube) which was a good move for them. They were always an uneasy fit with hardcore gamers anyway so starting cheap and going casual works well for the kind of games they make.

 

Still the confusion in what we want to call the non-hardcore gamers.  Hardcore gamers are easy to define.  But grouping the larger population of non-hardcore gamers into just one other category doesn't work as well.

There are the PS2 casuals of last gen that liked a lot of fun games like whether true casual or casual enough, like GTAs, which could be fun without working too hard in playing the game.  But even the PS2 didn't capture the ultra-casual that the Wii is getting.  The older adults and more females.

PS3 will capture those players who are, let's say, hardcore on the cheap, waiting for the price to drop for the hardware, but just as importantly, for the software.  One way is to buy used, but there is always that risk of buying a non-functioning PS3 or software.  Some casuals, let's call them PS2-casuals, will also buy PS3 if enough non-hardcore games make it to the PS3. 

But, Sony had better hurry if they don't want to lose those players to Nintendo's Wii.  As more and more games come out on the Wii, there is bound to be one or two that appeal to that crowd.  Also, I think it is easier for Wii to come out with a hardcore game that gets a few hardcore to buy the system.  Hardcore are willing to pay the extra to have 2 or all 3 consoles.  After all, if you can afford the  $600 to buy the PS3 when it first came out, what's $250 more?

I see Nintendo in the driver's seat this generation.  And penetrating hardcore better than Sony or MS will sell to the PS2 casuals, much less the ultra-casuals.

 

@ theprof00

Imagine a console that was in most retirement homes. Hospitals would have it for a fun way to retrain muscles and limbs that need to learn how to function again. Every radio show contest and school raffle are giving them away. Office break rooms have them because it is quick stress relief. 

None of these systems will ever hold more than 3 games in its disc reader.

You're right from the standpoint that the agency (retirement home, hospital, etc) will not buy more than a couple of games for the Wii.  But wrong from how many games that will be with those systems.  Already there are lots of stories about  game gifts being made by those who know others in those places or no longer are there, but wanted to give a 'thank you' gift to those that still are.

 

 



Torturing the numbers.  Hear them scream.

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Thats bullshit, Ninty have a decent attach rate. Yes S/MS (yep) are going for other users but they, distracted by the white angel of wii, won't give two ships about their new pinyata games and fancy gyroscope motes. Core audience don't care, and tell me maestro where will they go, to Ninty, nah its not hard enough is it?



“When we make some new announcement and if there is no positive initial reaction from the market, I try to think of it as a good sign because that can be interpreted as people reacting to something groundbreaking. ...if the employees were always minding themselves to do whatever the market is requiring at any moment, and if they were always focusing on something we can sell right now for the short term, it would be very limiting. We are trying to think outside the box.” - Satoru Iwata - This is why corporate multinationals will never truly understand, or risk doing, what Nintendo does.