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Forums - Gaming - Xenon vs Cell Which one really is better ??

Fishie on 09 July 2008
NNN2004 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
NNN2004 said:
i dont want to add fuel on fire but .. before in one site i read that the Cell have one main Core & 7 virtual .. idont know if this is true but maybe someone here know what this is mean.

 

The PS3 Cell has 8 cores(1 PPE & 8 SPE's). 1 SPE has been disabled too improve yeilds when making the Cell chip. So the PS3 has 1 PPE & 7 SPE's that are useable to the PS3 as a whole

 

 SPE`s are not cores, we went trough that shit already.

A core can work independantly, the SPE`s cannot as they NEED feeder data from the PPC core.

thats mean Cell have one main Core right ?

 

Yes

 



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Fishie on 09 July 2008
Marty8370 said:
Fishie said:
NNN2004 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
@Fishie - Have you even read this article. Or can't you help been a total plank.

Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs)

Each Cell contains 8 SPE's(7 SPE'sfor PS3)

An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.



*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence 4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell runs at 3.2GHz)

32 X 8 SPE's = 256 GFLOPS
32 X 7 SPE's = 224 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell)


Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

 

 

I am familiar with that article yes and you clearly have a hard time understanding the basics, that and you added the calculation for PS3 yourself since the article states the following:

 Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs) Each Cell contains 8 SPEs. An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.

*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence

4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS. 32 X 8 SPEs = 256 GFLOPS

 Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

 ___________________________________________

There is no calculation for the PS3 there and what you did was take the 32gflops number for the 4GHz Cell and applied that to the PS3. The PS3 of course does not run at 4GHz but runs at 3.2GHz so your calculation was flawed from the start.

one thing i want to know ... does the TFLOPS thing make a huge difference between Cell & Xenon ???

 

 

 It would if there would be no other things to take into account, otherwise it becomes just one integer in a larger framework and much like a chain a system is only as powerfull as its weakest components.

 

Nope 8 cores. PPE & SPE's are all cores.

 

 Wrong again



Marty8370 on 09 July 2008
NNN2004 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
NNN2004 said:
i dont want to add fuel on fire but .. before in one site i read that the Cell have one main Core & 7 virtual .. idont know if this is true but maybe someone here know what this is mean.

 

The PS3 Cell has 8 cores(1 PPE & 8 SPE's). 1 SPE has been disabled too improve yeilds when making the Cell chip. So the PS3 has 1 PPE & 7 SPE's that are useable to the PS3 as a whole

 

 SPE`s are not cores, we went trough that shit already.

A core can work independantly, the SPE`s cannot as they NEED feeder data from the PPC core.

thats mean Cell have one main Core right ?

 

 

Nope 8 cores. PPE & SPE's are all cores.



Marty8370 on 09 July 2008
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
Fishie said:
NNN2004 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
@Fishie - Have you even read this article. Or can't you help been a total plank.

Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs)

Each Cell contains 8 SPE's(7 SPE'sfor PS3)

An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.



*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence 4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell runs at 3.2GHz)

32 X 8 SPE's = 256 GFLOPS
32 X 7 SPE's = 224 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell)


Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

 

 

I am familiar with that article yes and you clearly have a hard time understanding the basics, that and you added the calculation for PS3 yourself since the article states the following:

 Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs) Each Cell contains 8 SPEs. An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.

*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence

4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS. 32 X 8 SPEs = 256 GFLOPS

 Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

 ___________________________________________

There is no calculation for the PS3 there and what you did was take the 32gflops number for the 4GHz Cell and applied that to the PS3. The PS3 of course does not run at 4GHz but runs at 3.2GHz so your calculation was flawed from the start.

one thing i want to know ... does the TFLOPS thing make a huge difference between Cell & Xenon ???

 

 

 It would if there would be no other things to take into account, otherwise it becomes just one integer in a larger framework and much like a chain a system is only as powerfull as its weakest components.

 

Nope 8 cores. PPE & SPE's are all cores.

 

 Wrong again

 

@Fishie - Have a cookie for been the 'No1 plank'. Seriously are you brain dead.



Mifely on 09 July 2008
Fishie said:
Mifely said:
Fishie said:
MikeB said:

@ Deneidez

Btw, have you ever even programmed anything?


Yes.

Do you know what kind of projects games are today?


Yes.

Tell me what can you do with your programming knowledge with cell after ps3 leaves the market?


Be more efficient on other CPUs as well, extensive knowledge of multi-threading, better understanding of how the underlying hardware operates, etc. I strongly believe by extensively working with the Cell, it will do wonders for people's resume as a coder in the future.

However the Cell will see new versions and more products based on this technology, most likely including the PS4.

 

Sony dropped CELL, you wont see CELL in the next Playstation.

How is that for showing confidence in a product you spearheaded and invested billions of dollars in?

 

Um... link?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6182641.html

 

This link doesn't say squat about the next playstation. Because Sony no longer wants to participate in the R&D of a chip has no bearing on whether they want to use it for their hardware. You're making some big assumptions when you claim Sony won't use a more advanced version of the Cell in the PS4, just because they no longer seek to profit from future Cell architecture sales. That's like suggesting that Microsoft won't use a PowerPC variant in the next XBox, because they don't have a stake in it. Complete speculation on your part.  Nice spin.

 



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NNN2004 on 09 July 2008
Marty8370 said:
NNN2004 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
NNN2004 said:
i dont want to add fuel on fire but .. before in one site i read that the Cell have one main Core & 7 virtual .. idont know if this is true but maybe someone here know what this is mean.

 

The PS3 Cell has 8 cores(1 PPE & 8 SPE's). 1 SPE has been disabled too improve yeilds when making the Cell chip. So the PS3 has 1 PPE & 7 SPE's that are useable to the PS3 as a whole

 

 SPE`s are not cores, we went trough that shit already.

A core can work independantly, the SPE`s cannot as they NEED feeder data from the PPC core.

thats mean Cell have one main Core right ?

 

 

Nope 8 cores. PPE & SPE's are all cores.

one said yes other said no ???!!! i think i should wait for another guy opinion . 

 



Viper1 on 09 July 2008

The SPE's are not cores. They operate like synergistic co-processors. They are not independent units.

Marty, I'd advise you to stop calling them cores because you're making yourself look foolish. While you may be citing articles that call them cores, reporters are hardly technical IC engineers, now are they?



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Marty8370 on 09 July 2008

@NNN2004 & Viper1 - read the following, it clear states 'SPE are Independent Cores'.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=23854

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2007/03/30/sony_playstation_3/3



683017CA on 09 July 2008

ACTUALLY THE 360s 3 CORE PROCESSORS ARE MULTITHREADED WICH MEANS THERE ARE 2 HARDWARE THREADS PER CORE. THIS MEANS IT CAN RUN SIX VURTUAL PROCESSORS AT ONCE.



NJ5 on 09 July 2008

@MikeB: You're changing your original statement. You said it's easier to attain peak performance with the Cell, not the opposite. Read my post again, then check yours in the previous page.

Regarding Kameo's CPU usage, it's meaningless since the game might not be very optimised. Nothing to complain about there.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957