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Forums - Gaming - Xenon vs Cell Which one really is better ??

Fishie on 09 July 2008
Marty8370 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
@Fishie - Have you even read this article. Or can't you help been a total plank.

Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs)

Each Cell contains 8 SPE's(7 SPE'sfor PS3)

An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.



*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence 4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell runs at 3.2GHz)

32 X 8 SPE's = 256 GFLOPS
32 X 7 SPE's = 224 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell)


Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

 

 

I am familiar with that article yes and you clearly have a hard time understanding the basics, that and you added the calculation for PS3 yourself since the article states the following:

 Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs) Each Cell contains 8 SPEs. An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.

*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence

4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS. 32 X 8 SPEs = 256 GFLOPS

 Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

 ___________________________________________

There is no calculation for the PS3 there and what you did was take the 32gflops number for the 4GHz Cell and applied that to the PS3. The PS3 of course does not run at 4GHz but runs at 3.2GHz so your calculation was flawed from the start.

 

@Fishie - What part of this don't you understand:

'An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor'. It clearly states 'INDEPENTENT PROCECESSOR'.

And my tires act as independant cars, same shit.

 

 

 



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Fishie on 09 July 2008
Marty8370 said:
NNN2004 said:
i dont want to add fuel on fire but .. before in one site i read that the Cell have one main Core & 7 virtual .. idont know if this is true but maybe someone here know what this is mean.

 

The PS3 Cell has 8 cores(1 PPE & 8 SPE's). 1 SPE has been disabled too improve yeilds when making the Cell chip. So the PS3 has 1 PPE & 7 SPE's that are useable to the PS3 as a whole

 

 SPE`s are not cores, we went trough that shit already.

A core can work independantly, the SPE`s cannot as they NEED feeder data from the PPC core.



Deneidez on 09 July 2008
NNN2004 said:

one thing i want to know ... does the TFLOPS thing make a huge difference between Cell & Xenon ???

Well, it does only mean that theoretically CELL can do more floating point operations than XENON. Most of operations you do with 3D games are floating point operations. However you can attain most of those easily with XENON and with CELL its really hard. As you have seen developers say that they can use only 30% of CELLs power & so on.



New crap available on mi pages!

NNN2004 on 09 July 2008
MikeB said:
NJ5 said:
MikeB seems to be suffering from doublethink. On one hand, he claims the Cell makes it easier to attain peak performance. On the other hand, he claims even a 360 launch game (Kameo) is already close to tapping the Xenos...

It's very hard to take him seriously, especially when you couple this kind of contradiction with his fundamental misconceptions about low-level programming.

Look it is simple, trying to fit an as big as possible square thorugh a circle isn't very efficient space wise.

Let me say it in another way. I was talking about actual real world results. The 360 has more in common with traditional architecture and shares tools with the PC allowing developers to get quicker results. However games will never come close to the Xenon's theoretical performance due to the many bottlenecks.

As you know the source on Kameo is Microsoft. Write them your complaint letter.

i also read it before that kameo use 85% of 360 power.

 



Fishie on 09 July 2008
NNN2004 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
@Fishie - Have you even read this article. Or can't you help been a total plank.

Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs)

Each Cell contains 8 SPE's(7 SPE'sfor PS3)

An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.



*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence 4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell runs at 3.2GHz)

32 X 8 SPE's = 256 GFLOPS
32 X 7 SPE's = 224 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell)


Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

 

 

I am familiar with that article yes and you clearly have a hard time understanding the basics, that and you added the calculation for PS3 yourself since the article states the following:

 Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs) Each Cell contains 8 SPEs. An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.

*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence

4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS. 32 X 8 SPEs = 256 GFLOPS

 Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

 ___________________________________________

There is no calculation for the PS3 there and what you did was take the 32gflops number for the 4GHz Cell and applied that to the PS3. The PS3 of course does not run at 4GHz but runs at 3.2GHz so your calculation was flawed from the start.

one thing i want to know ... does the TFLOPS thing make a huge difference between Cell & Xenon ???

 

 

 It would if there would be no other things to take into account, otherwise it becomes just one integer in a larger framework and much like a chain a system is only as powerfull as its weakest components.



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NNN2004 on 09 July 2008
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
NNN2004 said:
i dont want to add fuel on fire but .. before in one site i read that the Cell have one main Core & 7 virtual .. idont know if this is true but maybe someone here know what this is mean.

 

The PS3 Cell has 8 cores(1 PPE & 8 SPE's). 1 SPE has been disabled too improve yeilds when making the Cell chip. So the PS3 has 1 PPE & 7 SPE's that are useable to the PS3 as a whole

 

 SPE`s are not cores, we went trough that shit already.

A core can work independantly, the SPE`s cannot as they NEED feeder data from the PPC core.

thats mean Cell have one main Core right ?

 



Marty8370 on 09 July 2008

@Fishie - You are a 'plank'.



Marty8370 on 09 July 2008
Fishie said:
NNN2004 said:
Fishie said:
Marty8370 said:
@Fishie - Have you even read this article. Or can't you help been a total plank.

Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs)

Each Cell contains 8 SPE's(7 SPE'sfor PS3)

An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.



*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence 4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell runs at 3.2GHz)

32 X 8 SPE's = 256 GFLOPS
32 X 7 SPE's = 224 GFLOPS(PS3 Cell)


Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cell/Cell1_v2.html

 

 

I am familiar with that article yes and you clearly have a hard time understanding the basics, that and you added the calculation for PS3 yourself since the article states the following:

 Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs) Each Cell contains 8 SPEs. An SPE is a self contained vector processor which acts as an independent processor. They each contain 128 x 128 bit registers, there are also 4 (single precision) floating point units capable of 32 GigaFLOPS* and 4 Integer units capable of 32 GOPS (Billions of integer Operations per Second) at 4GHz. The SPEs also include a small 256 Kilobyte local store instead of a cache. According to IBM a single SPE (which is just 15 square millimetres and consumes less than 5 Watts at 4GHz) can perform as well as a top end (single core) desktop CPU given the right task.

*This is counting Multiply-Adds which count as 2 instructions, hence

4GHz x 4 x 2 = 32 GFLOPS. 32 X 8 SPEs = 256 GFLOPS

 Like the PPE the SPEs are in-order processors and have no Out-Of-Order capabilities. This means that as with the PPE the compiler is very important. The SPEs do however have 128 registers and this gives plenty of room for the compiler to unroll loops and use other techniques which largely negate the need for OOO hardware.

 ___________________________________________

There is no calculation for the PS3 there and what you did was take the 32gflops number for the 4GHz Cell and applied that to the PS3. The PS3 of course does not run at 4GHz but runs at 3.2GHz so your calculation was flawed from the start.

one thing i want to know ... does the TFLOPS thing make a huge difference between Cell & Xenon ???

 

 

 It would if there would be no other things to take into account, otherwise it becomes just one integer in a larger framework and much like a chain a system is only as powerfull as its weakest components.

 

Nope 8 cores. PPE & SPE's are all cores.



NNN2004 on 09 July 2008
Marty8370 said:
@Fishie - You are a 'plank'.

 

 plz marty no need for troll.



Marty8370 on 09 July 2008
NNN2004 said:
Marty8370 said:
@Fishie - You are a 'plank'.

 

 plz marty no need for troll.

 

I'm not. Fishie just refuses too acknowledge the fact that SPE's are 'Independent Core'. Even when given three articles that back up that claim.