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Forums - Microsoft - Two things Microsoft could have done to Crush Sony in the console war...

Only Sony with the brandname of PS1 and 2 behind it could release a console withe such a price tag and sell (albeit slowly) If MS had included HDDVD the result would of been the same. The years headstart and a cheap price is what got it into a strong position that even now they are a good 5-6 mill ahead and gaining serious software sales.



Ynwa.

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Leetgeek said:
mrstickball said:
Leetgeek said:

In 2008 the PS3 has outsold the Xbox 360 by nearly 1.3 million units. But this fight should not have gone this far. Microsoft made all the right moves except these 2:

Have the HDDVD drive built into the 360.

Pay Square SE for Exclusive rights to Final Fantasy 13.

 

While you can argue many things I believe that if Microsoft would have almost completely crushed Sony beyond repair with these 2 manuvers.

Why they didn't is beyond me.

 

Wrong, on both accounts.

#1. If Microsoft chose to incorporate the failed HD-DVD drive into the 360, I really wonder what championing a failed drive would do. Without mass production of the drives by various 3rd parties, Microsoft & Co. would of had to bear the entire brunt of proper HD-DVD R&D and production. This could lead to higher costs for the 360 beyond what Microsoft already pays. Not only this, production of the said disks could also be a bit costlier due to the lack of producton outside of Microsoft's factories (could you imagine how difficult producing millions of HD-DVD disks in 1 or 2 factories for every 360 game would be?) I agree on the whole "oh, the 360 could of used a bigger storage medium than DVD-9", but HD-DVD, as well as BR-DVD was rather new when MS produced, and sold the 360. With the fail rates of the early 360s, one can only question how awful the HD-DVD drives would of been (and how expensive, too).

HDDVD started to lose serious studio support because Bluray just had a much bigger userbase. The main reason: PS3 is a Bluray player. Now imagine if each 360 had been an HDDVD player. From what I understand it was much easier to produce HDDVD then it was Bluray. One of its selling points to the industry actually.

MS knew it would've been too risky. If they had put HD-DVD drives in anyway, MS would still be losing money, because they would need to stay price competetive with the ps3. Don't you understand? They are trying to make this xbox profitable, so there could be another try to dominate the console market.

#2. Although FFXIII could invigorate sales in Japan for the 360, it's doubtful that it would of propelled hardware sales into some sort of new arena that Microsoft Japan could of capitalized on. Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Ace Combat 6, Enchanted Arms, Eternal Sonata, Lost Planet, Ridge Racer 6, Dead or Alive 4 all were major games that X360 fans (even such as myself) touted would help the 360. Many of them, especially BD and DOA4 helped hardware sales, but never really kept a strong trend, save Blue Dragon. Even with the Playstation 3, we're seeing that major name-brand IPs are doing nothing for the PS3 in Japan. Metal Gear 4 hardware boosts, as astronomical as they were, collapsed and are back to near-normal levels. VF5, Gundam Mousou, HSG5, and others were the same way - despite selling 300,000-500,000 copies each, what did they accomplish?

So you think any of those games you mentioned have anything on Final Fantasy in Japan? No way son.

No one title helped either system. Looking at Japan, the trends have been better when you have multiple, string-together titles, rather than piecemeal titles once in awhile. FFXIII could of provided the 360 a 200,000/wk boost in hardware, but guess what? It would of been for 1 week, and then it'd be back down to 5k/wk in a matter of a month or two. 1 specific game (sans Wii Sports) really can't make or break a system in 1 given territory - Halo 3, nor MGS, nor GTA have provided viable, real boosts in a given territory to show that 1 game would ever be worth it (although H3 was darn close).

Looking at Japan Final Fantasy sells Millions of consoles every time.

Now, what MS should of done:

1) Announce a global, $100 price drop on all X360 SKUs in December 2007 to counteract PS3 pricedrop. Lets face it, the PS3 pricedrop helped, a lot. It's made the PS3 somewhat relevant in the US, and trend to relative strength in PAL territories. The MS price drop, as we've seen in Europe, has had very similar effects. What would of happened, however, if big games like Halo 3, Assassins Creed and Call of Duty 4 were new titles in those territories, rather than February releases? It wouldn't of killed the PS3, but it would of negated any advantage the PS3 would of had.

Bzzt wrong they should have had the 360 with the HDDVD drive starting at $399 from the get go and eat the loss because it would cost less then losing this console/format war long term.

What would of happened, however, if big games like Halo 3, Assassins Creed and Call of Duty 4 were new titles in those territories, rather than February releases? It wouldn't of killed the PS3, but it would of negated any advantage the PS3 would of had.

I beat both of those games on PS3 what a weird point you're trying to make.

2) Launch new 1st party software initiatives. Not buying out studio X, but actually building them, from the ground up. Microsoft has the worst 1st party development of the big 3 companies - the Big N is leaps and bounds ahead of them, and Sony's is pretty decent as well. Microsoft has Rare, and Lionhead (as well as Turn 10, and a few others), and they've paid over $1b for all of them. But I think if Microsoft went out, and assembled a few new teams - like Feel Plus, and staffed development studios with around 1,000 developers/artists/ect, they could rival Sony in a matter of months. Software is where MS could make their killing, as we've seen with Halo. But aside from Forza, MS hasn't had a true 1st party game do gangbusters as of yet.

Microsoft could have traded the cash they spent on Rare on some SE exclusives like FF13 or perhaps a FF7 Remake. Give Banjo back to the kids. It's been a long time since Rare made Donkey Kong Country money.

Sorry but you're wrong.

 

 

 

 

 no, soryy but YOU are wrong, leetreet.

*i'll finish this up later, i'm hardheaded, so I can spin my way out of anything. (got to play some gamezzzz)



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FF13 is made with the white engine or crystal tools which SE has claimed works on a multiplatform basis as proven by statements that it was being used on a unknown Wii title all assumed it was FFCC:CB but no game specfically was named. If FF13 was to appear on the 360 then it wouldn't be a downgrade as both 360 and PS3 do the same things as far as visuals it's only on the technology side that they differ and even then Xbox 360 uses edrm to perform tasks the PS3 struggles with if the software was designed for edrm usage. But since the crystal tools can be used on both PS3 and 360 which I'm guessing that's what Tri-Ace is using there really wont be a visual difference.

Unless your a hardcore gamer who plays game engines and not games - it really doesn't matter though, any difference would require some form of equipment or almost religious dedication by eye to detect.



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starcraft said:
Microsoft DID crush Sony this generation. Last generation the Sony machine had a market share of close to 75%. This generation it will be lucky to get 35%.

The REAL question is what could Microsoft have done to crush Nintendo?

No. Sony crushed Sony this generation and Nintendo have taken full advantage. Xbox 360 is heading for Xbox status which is distant 2nd at best but nothing but when all is said and done will be nothing but an after thought. Same with the PS3.

 



they could have just left the market ;)



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Leetgeek said:
mrstickball said:

HDDVD started to lose serious studio support because Bluray just had a much bigger userbase. The main reason: PS3 is a Bluray player. Now imagine if each 360 had been an HDDVD player. From what I understand it was much easier to produce HDDVD then it was Bluray. One of its selling points to the industry actually.

Possibly. But do you think that a $500 Premium Xbox 360 would of sold very well? The trouble Sony's PS3 is in would be greatly magnified if the X360 had an HD-DVD drive to start with. Unlike the PS3, Microsoft has no brand name appeal: just games and a good price. Take away 1 of those, and it becomes a Neo Geo real quick.

So you think any of those games you mentioned have anything on Final Fantasy in Japan? No way son.

Maybe not individually, but to secure FFXIII exclusivity, you'd have to bankroll a price that'd be similar to about 6-7 Xbox 360 exclusives.

Looking at Japan Final Fantasy sells Millions of consoles every time.

Since when? No FF in the PS2 era sold over 2.3m copies in Japan. And then one has to wonder how many bought a PS2 for FFX or XII alone. Even looking at FFX's launch, the PS2 sold 170,000 units, yet 1.9m copies it's first launch week. Under 10% of PS2 owners bought a PS2 for Final Fantasy. Hard to say that FF sells tons of consoles, no? FFXII and FF:CC for PSP were the same way.

Bzzt wrong they should have had the 360 with the HDDVD drive starting at $399 from the get go and eat the loss because it would cost less then losing this console/format war long term.

Uh, you think Microsoft would of enjoyed asorbing $250+ PER CONSOLE in losses for the first 2 years of it's existance? Microsoft would NEVER make money this generation with a huge, costly drive on it's system. Sony has already lost BILLIONS as last-generations market leader for Blu-Ray, with no name brand, an HD-DVD player would of done very little for MS. Blu-Ray would of sold better, as it's always had better studio  backing.

I beat both of those games on PS3 what a weird point you're trying to make.

Would the average gamer prefered to play them on a PS3 that cost ~$200 more than an ultra-cheap X360?

Microsoft could have traded the cash they spent on Rare on some SE exclusives like FF13 or perhaps a FF7 Remake. Give Banjo back to the kids. It's been a long time since Rare made Donkey Kong Country money.

Uhh. Last I checked, Halo 3 was bigger than any recent Final Fantasy, yet it failed to move 1 million consoles for the 360. So I don't see FFXIII doing that.

If MS wanted to moneyhat a series to allow the X360 userbase to grow in Japan, it should of bought DQ9, not XIII. DQ is leaps and bounds ahead of Final Fantasy in Japan...And again, thats "if" MS wanted to throw money away. Microsoft needs to grow a userbase, not buy one. Growing a userbase starts with a group of games, not just one.

 

 

 

 

 



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tuoyo said:

 No way on earth would HD DVD have been a failed drive if it was built into 360.  360 sales would have been lower (probably much much much lower) than they are now but there would have been more HD DVD players than Blu Ray players.  The studios that were Blu Ray exclusive that caused HD DVD to fail would have also released on HD DVD and some would have even been HD DVD exclusive.  The only studios that would have been Blu Ray exclusive would have been those owned by Blu Ray.

Ok. Lets say HD-DVD was on the 360, standard. As stated by many other users, MS would of either had to eat a huge loss on HD-DVD, ala Sony (which would be around $1.5-2bln more than it currently was/is), or lost a huge bit of sales.

So if the X360 would of seen much less sales, then how would HD-DVD come out on top? The PS3 would of sold like it did (horribly), but I bet it would of easily sold better than a HD-DVD X360 at $500. The BR-HD war would of lasted longer, but Sony would of won eventually, and Microsoft's loss would be far more substantial than what it has been. Again, what would MS of gained by incorporating a HD-DVD into the 360? More sales? Easily offset by the $2b in losses. More games? Again, would they help the X360 out as much as an extra billion in profits?

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

tombi123 said:
Because if they included an HD DVD drive with the 360, it would have cost a bomb and failed completely.

A guy from Microsoft said they could have paid for FFXIII exclusive rights, but didn't want to. I don't know why.

they should have made 360 with hdvd built in, this would have made a much attractive package.

i belive in the many years to come it will come back to pinch microsoft.

 



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It would of been interesting if M$ built the HD-DVD into the 360. At all i would of been all over 360 right now if they did, Blu ray would of lost automatically since the 360 got a headstart. BUT if this happened, the 360 would of had a higher price (possibly comparable to the ps3) and thus would of produced more sales to the Wii (in the eyes of average consumers = affordable pricing is everything ) but my reply is full of nothing but IF's.



The HD-DVD thing is totally backwards. Putting HD-DVD on the console would only have delayed it and made it more expensive, which would enable the PS3 to crush it.

360's head-start was very important for two reasons:

1- Getting a lead in installed base without having to compete against another console of the same gen.
2- Getting developers to learn 360 development, without the PS3 competing for their time.

Were these advantages to disappear, the 360 would have been an easy kill for the PS3 - many customers would just go with the most known brand, PS, and developers would focus more on the PS3 since the PS2 was so successful.

Conclusion: DVD was the right choice for the 360.



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