Yup. But Id rather not have to go to gamefaqs which what Im trying to say.

It's quite sad to see that people are still trapped in the mindset that games need to be "fun". It's backward thinking and is what prevents the industry elevating itself to the state of high art. I certainly don't play games purely or even primarily for "fun"

Backwards? What the fuck. So games should always be challenging and competitive and get you pissed off?
No I dont think so. And seeing from your sig we obviously have a different opinion so this is only going to lead to arguments if theres a reply.

Games are fun thats what they should be thats their ultimate goal. Not to fucking compete and brag about how you spent so many hours doing this and that and oh I beat Person A you know what I get out of it? Bragging rights on a forum and days of my life that I'll never get back.:P Stupid.

I didn't necessarily mean difficulty though that is aso a valid reason to enjoy a game. But for example would you consider the history channel fun? Math class fun? There should be games that focus on educating people, other games that are made simply as social or political commentary, others that are merely one creators expression of high art and others that are purely there to  challenge the masoist player. No way should all games be purely drived by fun just as many books and movies are not created to be merely entertainment pieced only.

History channel is fun yes. Math class no.:P What games do you think educate people? No way do the Brain Age games do...

 Anyways NOW I think I get what youre saying since youve explained a bit more.

A game is hardcore when it appeals to the masses of geeks and nerds, making them all to rush to gamestop, asking the clueless cashier girl that they're picking up a two year old pre order, making their testostorone levels reach higher than "low average" making them break out acne and sacrifice more of their social life, making them scream " I POONED YOU NOOB" unexpectedly, jumping and hitting the ceiling of their basement at three o clock in the morning, making them spend countless weeks striving for every illusive gamerchieve points, making them suffer from starvation, fatigue, and lack of sunlight... When all is done, and the dust, glasses, spit, yu gi oh cards, roaches, red bull cans, broken controllers and power bricks settle on the floor, the game has achieved what few have sought after. a level unknown to many, but few have one word for it, Hardcore.

Hardcore and casual in gaming isn't only defined by how hard it is. Yes that is a factor, given when games like Ninja Gaiden are hardcore games. But usually games are hardcore because they don't have a simplistic gameplay concept nor gameplay setup. They usually take long hours to play and show some level of difficulty especially in the form of progression throughout the game. Casual titles are essentially the exact opposite.

What!!! You don't want games to be fun.  Oh my goodness thank goodness we don't have someone like you in charge of what games get released.  If gaming is not about fun what on earth is it about.  You want to just watch pretty graphics and be bored out of your mind or what?   Why not watch a boring movie with amazing sound and graphics gaming will never get to?  I don't understand what you are saying.  Gaming is about fun.  Should be about nothing else.  If the direction gaming starts heading to is that we are not entertained by what we are playing then that's when I will stop playing games.

There is an entire subgenre of educational videogames called edutainment, and not all of those games are bad.

Politics is such a depressing matter that I personally want it to stay as far from my games as possible. An occasional political opinion or message isn't all that horrible, but political manifests are best left to real life instead of digital waste.

Many hardcore gamers do not find games to be of the same difficulty that you do. I find that many modern games are too simple and easy to be interesting while I find "difficult" games such as Ikaruga to be perfect in terms of difficulty.