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Forums - Gaming - Is it possible for the Wii to have games like Bioshock, MSG 4, and GTA 4?

.:Dark Prince:. on 01 July 2008

@Leo

I'd say the same about MGS3, it has pretty huge environments, pretty good AI, and a more steady FPS than MGS4. Also it would look better than the pic since the pic is of a PS2 game, and we all know PS2 is really inferior to the Wii.



 

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CaNCeRthecrabus on 01 July 2008
Just_Ben said:
Mifely said:

Do all Wii owners imagine that they purchased a console that will, someday, be able to play all the HD console games, merely with a minor loss in texture quality? Textures take a fair chunk of memory, yes, but... its hardly the sole contributor to the memory footprint of an application like GTA4 or AC. Lemme throw up a sample memory budget for a run-of-the-mill HD game:

* 30-60 MB -- OS (I think the Wii has a much smaller OS)
* 4 MB -- screen buffers (easy to shrink if you lose HD)
* 60 MB -- code and global data (next to impossible to shrink without changing the game)
* 30 MB -- game objects (next to impossible to shrink -- see above)
* 20 MB -- animations (easy to shrink... but with substantial quality loss)
* 60 MB -- physics/collision data (pretty hard to shrink without serious level changes, which means you're re-doing all the content)
* 120 MB -- textures (easy to shrink, acceptable quality loss, IMO)
* 60 MB -- visual geometry (kinda hard to shrink, but somewhat doable, depending on artist skills and tools... and time)
* 20 MB -- sound (easy to shrink if you lower quality and compress like crazy... maybe)
* 20 MB -- AI navigational data (pretty dang hard to shrink without really messing up the AI and re-doing the content)
* ~60 MB -- misc crap I forgot (most stuff is usually much harder to shrink than textures)

Now fit that on the 64+27MB of the Wii, after accounting for, I would hope, 8MB or less for the Wii's OS. You come out with a completely different game, that is also lame compared to its HD counterpart(s).

And yes, HD cross-platform games ALWAYS use ALL the memory available. I don't think I've ever heard of a HD game that didn't have to squeeze into its platform(s) memory budget at some point in its development cycle. This has been true for... eons. Consoles never have as much memory as the developers want.

I am no game developer, but at least a developer, and this numbers look awfull wrong to me. 60 MB code, compiled, in the ram? Only 120 MB for the textures? Thats not much. Sorry but I think all things you mentioned are way to high and the textures are way to low.

 

His spec is right.  Obviously things like the budgets for sound or AI vary from game to game... but, it's pretty close.  On the X360 you have 512mb of unified memory but right off, the X360 OS eats 32mb (this is why you can access the Live Blades during a game).  Textures.. 120mb is about right.  Let's say you have linear streaming levels, that gets further divided up into "rooms" or "sectors" where you only get 64mb of textures (which that can be eaten up by shared level texture data).  It doesn't sound like a lot, it isn't, but it makes us Devs get a little more creative.

 



CaNCeRthecrabus on 01 July 2008
leo-j said:
.:Dark Prince:. said:
colonelstubbs said:
MGS4 on the wii would be quite frankly, embarassing


A Wii version would look at least a bit better than this:

Is that "embarassing" ?

Id doubt it would even look that good, the AI, FR,Resolution, everything would have to be downgraded severley. MGS4 isnt just pretty graphics, it has huge environments, amazing AI, and a very steady framerate. Which I believe the XBOX 1 could only dream of running with ps2 graphics.

 

The Xbox 1 was, technically, nearly twice the machine that the PS2 was (memory alone - PS2 32mb vs Xbox 64mb Unified).  The Wii could be considered an equal to the abilities of Xbox1.

 



leo-j on 01 July 2008
.:Dark Prince:. said:
@Leo

I'd say the same about MGS3, it has pretty huge environments, pretty good AI, and a more steady FPS than MGS4. Also it would look better than the pic since the pic is of a PS2 game, and we all know PS2 is really inferior to the Wii.

 

 Yea I know, the wii is about 3-4 times more powerful than the ps2, but Id say its possible to see it with MGS3 graphics, or a bit higher, MGS4 has much larger environments than MGS3, and a faster FR.  As well as much stronger AI than MGS3. All those things combined need to be controlled by the CPU and GPU, which takes alot to handle that type of AI, things going on screen, and etc... Its possible to get MGS3 graphics out of it thats all I believe it can do if it wants to keep the high framerate, AI, and huge environments.



 

mM
.:Dark Prince:. on 01 July 2008
leo-j said:
.:Dark Prince:. said:
@Leo

I'd say the same about MGS3, it has pretty huge environments, pretty good AI, and a more steady FPS than MGS4. Also it would look better than the pic since the pic is of a PS2 game, and we all know PS2 is really inferior to the Wii.

 

 Yea I know, the wii is about 3-4 times more powerful than the ps2, but Id say its possible to see it with MGS3 graphics, or a bit higher, MGS4 has much larger environments than MGS3, and a faster FR.  As well as much stronger AI than MGS3. All those things combined need to be controlled by the CPU and GPU, which takes alot to handle that type of AI, things going on screen, and etc... Its possible to get MGS3 graphics out of it thats all I believe it can do if it wants to keep the high framerate, AI, and huge environments.



Agreed, one scene i don't think the Wii could pull off is when you're on the bike with Big Mama and there are those things flying and all those explosions.



 

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PapaSmurf5721 on 01 July 2008

yes only graphical changes.



                                     

                             End of 2008 Sales:

               Wii- 39 Million 360- 25Million PS3- 22 Million

                          PSN: papasmurf5721

                  

 

         

 

                                                   

      

iron_megalith on 01 July 2008
spdk1 said:
no prob:

http://www.hdtvpub.com/productdb/games/index.cfm?search=&Platform=Xbox&r720p=yes&OrderBy=resolution&daStartRow=1&showRows=25&searched=do

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gamecube_games_with_HD_support

gamecube are all in 480p, but that is still HD

 

Got it.. I saw this at the back of Halo 2's casing it says 480p. Thanks.



Valkyria00 on 01 July 2008

One of the main reason people love those games is because they way they look.
GTA could come to the Wii but wouldnt look much better than last gen stuff.
Plus you cant shove all that content on to Wii. It cant handle all the engines and stuff. So it would have to be watered down alot.
Thats why devolopers shouldnt try to mimic anything on WIi.
They got to stylize their games. No More Heroes and MadWorld are great examples I think.

Simply yes it can....kinda. Cut down the graphics and engines and if you cut down the engines the overall gameplay would change so it wont be the same. I say seperate the Wii from it. Not a good comparison but kinda like what EA is doing trying to seperate its All-Play sorts brand from its regular sports stuff.