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Forums - Gaming - Is DVD-9 enough this generation?

Zucas on 14 June 2007

If Oblivion can fit on one disc then yes.



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windbane on 14 June 2007
Gballzack said:
windbane said:
z64dan said:
Gballzack said:
It is kind of sad Blu-Ray's size is virtually useless in that it has to be filled up with redundant data just to avoid terrible loading times. Is Sony banking on faster readers in the future to avoid this "catch 22"?

Yeah having 25 gigs is pretty useless when 15 of the gigs are just extra copies of important info, stored close to other data so its faster for the laser to find...

I guess whenever games actually NEED 25 gigs, the loading will go from slow to incredibly frustrating.


Heh...you guys are funny. The Oblivion guy complained that load times would be worse on the PS3 so he used duplicate data on the disc. Okay. However, seeing as how the DL discs actually read slower than blu-ray and blu-ray is the same speed throughout the disc, there isn't much to be worried about.

I'd also like to point out that all PS3s can install critical files like RR7, Oblivion, and others already do. Ninja Gaiden Sigma will have a full install option. In case you guys don't know, hard drives are much faster than optical drives.

PS3s will always have the load-time advantage. Btw, Oblivion loaded twice as fast on the PS3. A rather awesome port considering it also looked better and ran smoother. I think it'll be ok.


1. When did I say anything about load times being longer or shorter between the 360 or PS3? And why are you going to refer to both of us when you don't respond to anything I said. I asked about the possibility of eliminating the need for redundant data on the Blu-Ray to try and find some justification for the nightmare Blu-Ray is, not how fast my PS3 games are going to load by installing them onto the hard drive first.

2. The real question though is why in gods name should a console ever need to install a game first before playing it? Why not just sell a monitor with it and call it a PC? Hell, better yet, why bother with a disc at all? Oh that's right, because a certain someone is trying to force Blu-Ray on the consumer market, that's why. Hey I know, let's make an overly large disc format handicapped by redundant data, boast about how much data it can hold then turn around and make you install your games anyway to compensate for the format's shortcomings, brilliant.

JSF said:
Gballzack said:

We also have to take into consideration that the majority of the space taken up on a Blu-Ray disc game is redundant information that wouldn't be needed on a DVD-9.

This isn't true for multi-disc games however. When you have a multi-disc game, you will need to have some redundant data between discs because the core game files need to be read and re-read now and again. If there is no redundant data, you would have to do a lot of swapping back to disc 1 and then back to whatever later disc again.

 

Yes while this is true, it doesn't change the fact that Blu-Ray's size is basically its own worst enemy if its using a larger part of it for redundant data to reduce load times. Obviously there will be redundant data to play the game's essential functions in a multi-disc DVD9 too, but it wouldn't be redundant data for the same reason and it wouldn't be taking up a fraction of the space Blu-Ray redundant data would. Furthermore, my original point in this statement was to say that you might be able to fit a theoretical Blu-Ray game onto a single DVD-9 if you didn't have to deal with the redundant data which accounted for the space taken up on the Blu-Ray disc.

 


Yeah, ignore half of what I say.  I responded to what you said by stating that HD installs improve load times over Wii and 360.  Most people consider that a great feature, it was the best part of the xbox.  However, you ignore the fact that DL dvds read slower than blu-ray, and blu-ray is the same speed throughout the disc whereas a dvd is only fast on the edge.

There is not much need for redundant data.  You are just wrong...as usual. 



your mother on 14 June 2007
Gballzack said:

?



windbane on 14 June 2007

Nice sig.  And you continue to pull out nice troll pictures.



rocketpig on 14 June 2007
windbane said:

*sigh*

CDs were "proprietary" until Sony and Phillips introduced them.  Yeah, that's right, CDs are more of a Sony format than blu-ray.  I think those worked out well.  What was that cool device that used CDs?  Oh yeah, the Playstation 1.

DVDs weren't widely adopted until...what was that thing called...oh yeah, the Playstation 2.

Uh, no. While Sony had a hand in CD, Phillips was the real driving force whereas Blu-Ray is completely Sony.

And DVDs were widely adopted before the PS2, unless you consider 25m players sold in the US "not widely adopted". I'm sick and tired of that myth. DVDs were well on their way to dominance before the PS2 even released. 




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akuma587 on 14 June 2007

I think people forget about security space required on a video game DVD. I think I read that can range anywhere from .75-1.5 gigs per DVD. Time will tell if Blu-Ray is overkill this generation, but if history is any indicator, it IS NOT.

SNES generation to the Playstation generation (people thought CD's were too much)
Playstation generation to PS2 generation (people thought DVD's were too much)
PS2 generation to PS3 generation (people think Blu-Ray is too much).

It may be too much, but I really don't think there is as much evidence as some people think based on actual events in history that supports this theory.



We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high-powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers…Also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of beer, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.  The only thing that really worried me was the ether.  There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge. –Raoul Duke

It is hard to shed anything but crocodile tears over White House speechwriter Patrick Buchanan's tragic analysis of the Nixon debacle. "It's like Sisyphus," he said. "We rolled the rock all the way up the mountain...and it rolled right back down on us...."  Neither Sisyphus nor the commander of the Light Brigade nor Pat Buchanan had the time or any real inclination to question what they were doing...a martyr, to the bitter end, to a "flawed" cause and a narrow, atavistic concept of conservative politics that has done more damage to itself and the country in less than six years than its liberal enemies could have done in two or three decades. -Hunter S. Thompson

windbane on 14 June 2007
rocketpig said:
windbane said:

*sigh*

CDs were "proprietary" until Sony and Phillips introduced them. Yeah, that's right, CDs are more of a Sony format than blu-ray. I think those worked out well. What was that cool device that used CDs? Oh yeah, the Playstation 1.

DVDs weren't widely adopted until...what was that thing called...oh yeah, the Playstation 2.

Uh, no. While Sony had a hand in Blu-Ray, Phillips was the real driving force whereas Blu-Ray is completely Sony.

And DVDs were widely adopted before the PS2, unless you consider 25m players sold in the US "not widely adopted". I'm sick and tired of that myth. DVDs were well on their way to dominance before the PS2 even released.


The Blu-ray Disc Association

The Blu-ray Disc Association is the industry consortium that develops and licenses Blu-ray Disc technology. This group has three levels of membership: the Board of Directors, the Contributors and the General Members. [1]

[edit] Board of Directors

The Blu-ray Disc Association website describes the role of the Board of Directors as follows [1]:

"Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu-ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

The current 18 board members (as of 09/12/2006) are [2]:

[edit] Contributors

 



windbane on 14 June 2007
rocketpig said:
windbane said:

*sigh*

CDs were "proprietary" until Sony and Phillips introduced them. Yeah, that's right, CDs are more of a Sony format than blu-ray. I think those worked out well. What was that cool device that used CDs? Oh yeah, the Playstation 1.

DVDs weren't widely adopted until...what was that thing called...oh yeah, the Playstation 2.

Uh, no. While Sony had a hand in Blu-Ray, Phillips was the real driving force whereas Blu-Ray is completely Sony.

And DVDs were widely adopted before the PS2, unless you consider 25m players sold in the US "not widely adopted". I'm sick and tired of that myth. DVDs were well on their way to dominance before the PS2 even released.


History

In 1979 Philips and Sony set up a joint task force of engineers to design the new digital audio disc. Prominent members of the task force were Kees Immink and Toshitada Doi. After a year of experimentation and discussion, the taskforce produced the "Red Book", the Compact Disc standard. Philips contributed the general manufacturing process, based on video LaserDisc technology. Philips also contributed the Eight-to-Fourteen Modulation (EFM), which offers both a long playing time and a high resilience against disc handling damage such as scratches and fingerprints, while Sony contributed the error-correction method, CIRC. The Compact Disc Story[1], told by a former member of the taskforce, gives background information on the many technical decisions made, including the choice of the sampling frequency, playing time, and disc diameter. According to Philips, the Compact Disc was thus "invented collectively by a large group of people working as a team[2]." 

 



rocketpig on 14 June 2007
windbane said:

In 1979 Philips and Sony set up a joint task force of engineers to design the new digital audio disc. Prominent members of the task force were Kees Immink and Toshitada Doi. After a year of experimentation and discussion, the taskforce produced the "Red Book", the Compact Disc standard. Philips contributed the general manufacturing process, based on video LaserDisc technology. Philips also contributed the Eight-to-Fourteen Modulation (EFM), which offers both a long playing time and a high resilience against disc handling damage such as scratches and fingerprints, while Sony contributed the error-correction method, CIRC. The Compact Disc Story[1], told by a former member of the taskforce, gives background information on the many technical decisions made, including the choice of the sampling frequency, playing time, and disc diameter. According to Philips, the Compact Disc was thus "invented collectively by a large group of people working as a team[2]." 

 


I'm well versed in the history of CD, thanks.

And I notice you didn't argue the PS2/DVD rebuttal. 




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

rocketpig on 14 June 2007
windbane said:

The Blu-ray Disc Association

The Blu-ray Disc Association is the industry consortium that develops and licenses Blu-ray Disc technology. This group has three levels of membership: the Board of Directors, the Contributors and the General Members. [1]

[edit] Board of Directors

The Blu-ray Disc Association website describes the role of the Board of Directors as follows [1]:

"Companies participating in the Board of Directors are active participants of the format creation and key BDA activities. They are selected from the Contributors by election. The board sets an overall strategy and approves key issues. A board member can participate in all activities and attend all meetings. The Blu-ray Disc Founder companies will make up the initial Board of Directors. Annual fee: $ 50,000"

The current 18 board members (as of 09/12/2006) are [2]:

[edit] Contributors

 


That's fine and dandy but who created the format? Who owns the royalty rights?




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/