I guess it depends upon the image you want video games to have. I think MGS4 is a godsend for video games, and unlike most people I have much more of a problem with the Wii and their most popular games. I want games to be seen as a true artistic medium that can at least be taken seriously to some degree, and he is helping to do this.

     I would say more like Dio's wimpier, uglier sister.

"Yeah I heard it before with regards to that pic and in others I have been likened to Ronnie James Dio"

Bravo to this conversation! This is far more interesting and relevant than the "stupid MGS fanboys think MGS is art" witch hunt.

As for actually addressing the conversation. I tend to agree with Happy. It's the proverbial "showing is better than telling" mechanic. However, there's a reason why we have both movies like Gattaca and philosophical books like "Critique of Pure Reason." Both ways of attacking certain themes and ideas work. That's why Kojima's style works for so large an audience.

This is (essentially) what I was talking about with my first post ...

Being discussed in "College Courses" doesn't mean that there was anything particularly fantastic about an Artistic work, many colleges offer courses that discuss the popular (and bad) movies as a way of providing material which is interesting to their students so that they can learn how to analyze a story. Beyond that, I think it is far more likely that the materials you listed will be (entirely) forgotten in 20 years and colleges will favour classics, great peices of literature, or popular works of the day ...

What? so youre saying that MSG4 is bad for our hobby because of its style?

What does bad for our hobby even mean? does it mean that it makes us look like idiots for playing it to the outside world....or does it not attract new gamers? Nether of those thing are true about MGS4 so someone please elaborate...

+1 for you my friend. The videogame medium, like all other media, is hugely diverse. Just look at GTAIV, MGS4, Mario Galaxy, The Sims, Nintendogs, Tetris, etc. There's so much to choose from, and they all send the gaming industry in various directions. The original topic of this thread is sad. How many times do you hear movie buffs saying stuff like Harold and Kumar or Die Hard are bad for movies? How often do you hear people in book clubs say romance novels or Stephen King are bad for books?

This topic just goes to show the immaturity and lack of vision of some gamers.

Edit: And I'm with Ant. What the F does "bad" mean? That's as vague as can be.

No, they won't. Just like the works of H. P. Lovecraft and Edgar Allen Poe, the works that I cited will become canonical and be discussed for decades to come. And they all represent the pinnacles of their respective genres. Stephen King's The Dark Tower Saga is the pinnacle of adult fantasy narratives, Moore's Watchmen and Miller's Dark Knight elevate comics and super heroes from mere childhood characters into the modern-day equivalent of epic heroes and point out inherent social and political problems in our society, and Kojima's MGS does much the same thing in video game form. As a whole, it is the perfect post-modern, nuclear terror, Japanese futuristic dystopia novel of its age.

     Also, you are wrong about what colleges discuss.  Why do you think that if you take a class in American lit, for example, that your textbook is called Classics of American Literature instead of Some Stories...Some Good...Others Bad....That Will Assist You With Learning How to Analyze a Story?


"This is (essentially) what I was talking about with my first post ...

Being discussed in "College Courses" doesn't mean that there was anything particularly fantastic about an Artistic work, many colleges offer courses that discuss the popular (and bad) movies as a way of providing material which is interesting to their students so that they can learn how to analyze a story. Beyond that, I think it is far more likely that the materials you listed will be (entirely) forgotten in 20 years and colleges will favour classics, great peices of literature, or popular works of the day ..."

 Hehehehe good one

Finally an example I love, so far I agree with you since the way of taking care this subjects in the movie plays a silent role next to the characters, in fact I think that the most shocking moments of the movie are shared by Silence or a few words and subtle expressions of emotion... that lead you inherently to share the subject of the movie (Since you are in charge of understand and give and interpretation to the characters actions and thoughts)...

Another hate thread. Just accept that millions enjoy his games and let it go.