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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How bad is MGS4 for the image of our hobby?

ChronotriggerJM on 27 June 2008

I think it's fantastic for the image of our hobby ^^ My ex girlfriend is one of those types that doesn't see the point of "playing games all the time" and genuinely isn't interested in them. She never got the point of Mario games, never got into games one would generally classify as non-story driven, all gameplay types. She'll play puzzle games, but that's slightly different. Anyways, she is a major film buff, and sure, the cutscenes may not be of your "Hollywood blockbuster quality", they're still fun dammit :P While I was playing through metal gear solid 3, I came up to the first ocelot and snake CQC scene and she was genuinely interested in watching, she spent the entire time asking me questions as to who was who, and why they were fighting, and how the hell ocelot could shoot the guy by banking a bullet..

HUZZAH muthafuckas :D

Someone who wasn't at all interested in anything non-simple puzzle game related, sat down and seriously watched a lengthy scene out of MGS3. If anything, the Metal Gear Solid series is FANTASTIC for the image of what video games can be or what direction they COULD head down. There's nothing wrong with many types of genre's in the video game industry and hell, if an interactive movie is one of them, so be it. People can pretend to be as prissy and high and mighty as they wish, but it doesn't change the fact that some of us like the games, some of us LIKE the over-the-top hollywood cheese, some of us LIKE sitting through lengthy cutscenes. I'm not sure why you ever put it through your heads to have such high expectations for something, but I feel genuinely sad for you. I'll tell you what, that's wonderful that you have expensive tastes and can only get intoxicated by a $400 bottle of alcohol, the guy drunk off 2 beers is having a much better time than you ;/ Stop being so damn picky and live a little.



From 0 to KICKASS in .stupid seconds.

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Words Of Wisdom on 27 June 2008
DTG said:

I never played Kotor2. What elevates it's storytelling above the original Kotor? Also, what do you think of Mass Effect as far as it's storytelling is concerned?

 

LOL.  Kotor2 was a depressing sequel because it basically took the original, copied the half the characters over with different names (or as themselves), and had the essentially the same plot as Kotor.  The biggest difference had to be Kreia but she didn't actually make the game more enjoyable.



jankazimierz on 27 June 2008

If your hobby is trolling threads about how the PS3 has no good games, than yes, MGS4 is bad for your hobby.



Garcian Smith on 27 June 2008
jman8 said:
How could MGS4 be bad for gaming? What game according to you wannabe videogame elitists is good for gaming? I pity the fool who apparently thinks 99.999999% of videogames don't have any merit. Why even play games?

 


Let me make it clear that I'm talking more about the fanbase that the MGS games inspire, rather than the games themselves. I actually enjoyed the first two MGS games on the same level that I enjoy, say, the Indiana Jones movies: as entertainment, rather than as art. What people shouldn't be doing is confusing the two, because that's what's hurting gaming as a medium.



"'Casual games' are something the 'Game Industry' invented to explain away the Wii success instead of actually listening or looking at what Nintendo did. There is no 'casual strategy' from Nintendo. 'Accessible strategy', yes, but ‘casual gamers’ is just the 'Game Industry''s polite way of saying what they feel: 'retarded gamers'."

 -Sean Malstrom

 

 

Fishie on 27 June 2008
konnichiwa said:
Fishie said:
konnichiwa said:
Huh, didn't ya had other Kojima and you pictures? Never saw this one before;.


PS: Does Kojima only smile when he is drunk?

 

 Yeah I have more.

 

My wild hair is gone BTW, dont think you have seen me yet with short hair.

 

I really never have paid that much of attention to your hair but more to you are athletic body so I probably will not notice it.

 

 I feel flattered but sadly for you I dont swing that way.



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Fishie on 27 June 2008
Spankey said:
@Fishie:
O/T but for some reason you remind me of Paulie Shore in that pic

 

 Yeah I heard it before with regards to that pic and in others I have been likened to Ronnie James Dio



Fishie on 27 June 2008
Garcian Smith said:

 

DTG said:
No, Kojima's games are the saving grace of a hobby that has been consistently degraded as childish and senselessly violent.

Kojima's games actually deal with adult issues and the in game violence (which is only optional) is always done so with reason. Themes of identity, free will, manipulation, memes and many others paint a distinctively adult, mature and inellectual picture over an otherwise unsanitized industry ridden with senseless violence and childrens fantasy tale settings.

 

Um... no.

Maybe I played different Metal Gear Solid games than you, but all I took from them was a bunch of over-the-top in-jokes and fourth wall breaking. When I think of identity and free will, I think of Descartes - or, if you need a parallel in entertainment, Philip K. Dick or Frank Herbert - and not a video game about a super-spy fighting bisexual vampires and other villains with ridiculous powers.

In reality, video games have yet to see the medium's "Citizen Kane," or, the game that makes people take games seriously as an artistic medium. Planescape: Torment came close, but was ignored by everybody but reviewers, and we've only had a few good attempts since.

If anything, Kojima's games - or, more precisely, his fans - only serve to further the stereotype of the uncultured gamer who thinks that, well, games about super-spies fighting ridiculous villains are on the level of great literature or film. If you want something along those lines, go play a Chris Avellone game and call me back in the morning.

 

 And bingo was his namo.

 

Quoted for being a highly intelligent post which I agree wholeheartidly with(the best kind of highly intelligent posts).



Fishie on 27 June 2008
misterd said:
bardicverse said:
DTG - Just a thought on the end of "children's fantasy tale" setting. Videogames were never thought of as toys for children, not until much later on, when Disney entered the market with its software in the SNES/ Genesis days. The fantasy fiction setting is the proper name you are looking to refer to, and actually tends to draw in the older crowds, the ones who know lines from Lord of the Rings like they do their home address. Most of the younger kids like games intended for them, and when they want to show off how cool they are, will play FPS games that their parents' probably shouldn't let them play. That crosses the border of your argument, into the violent gaming. The only negative side in our industry, in the public's eyes, is the violence in gaming. You won't see protestes about Final Fantasy or Zelda the way you do about Manhunt and GTA. Gaming is not considered, nor was considered "kiddie", a term ironically coined by Sony to try to put down the Nintendo systems and games. However, it is considered immature and "teen-like" due to the violent content, something that Sony helped to stoke the coals on.

 

There was no "kiddie" division because games lacked the technical sophistication to do anything more than very simple animations and controls, but they were always thought of as kid's stuff, and few adults in the old days played games outside of bars.

 

 Right, must be why adult text adventures were so popular back in the day.

You honestly want to tell me that Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy or Leisure suit Larry were KIDDY before that term was coined?



Fishie on 27 June 2008
el_rika said:
Garcian Smith said:

 

DTG said:
No, Kojima's games are the saving grace of a hobby that has been consistently degraded as childish and senselessly violent.

Kojima's games actually deal with adult issues and the in game violence (which is only optional) is always done so with reason. Themes of identity, free will, manipulation, memes and many others paint a distinctively adult, mature and inellectual picture over an otherwise unsanitized industry ridden with senseless violence and childrens fantasy tale settings.

 

Um... no.

Maybe I played different Metal Gear Solid games than you, but all I took from them was a bunch of over-the-top in-jokes and fourth wall breaking. When I think of identity and free will, I think of Descartes - or, if you need a parallel in entertainment, Philip K. Dick or Frank Herbert - and not a video game about a super-spy fighting bisexual vampires and other villains with ridiculous powers.

In reality, video games have yet to see the medium's "Citizen Kane," or, the game that makes people take games seriously as an artistic medium. Planescape: Torment came close, but was ignored by everybody but reviewers, and we've only had a few good attempts since.

If anything, Kojima's games - or, more precisely, his fans - only serve to further the stereotype of the uncultured gamer who thinks that, well, games about super-spies fighting ridiculous villains are on the level of great literature or film. If you want something along those lines, go play a Chris Avellone game and call me back in the morning.

You have no ideea what you are talking about. You are the perefect example of the typical casual gamer incapable of comprehending the substance of the MGS games and especially MGS4. And in your ignorance you come here and brag about books and movies you probably only heard of, and if you actually read them you understood exactly zero but still it's cool to give them as examples or at least that's what you heard...  

...but we both know the truth now don't we ? you haven't even played MGS4, hell, you don't even own a PS3, but just like any narrow minded fanboy you blindly jumped into the hater's wagon.

I pitty you, i  really do.

 

 

 Oh I see how it goes.

He disagrees with you with a well written and thought out post that contradicts what you feel so you come in with the personal attacks.



TheBigFatJ on 27 June 2008
Fishie said:

Subtlety is a word not in Kojima`s dictionary it seems as MGS4 once again bombards us with heavy handed cliche upon heavy handed cliche, retarded storylines that dont make any sense, overacting of the worst kind etcetera.

Are games like MGS4 ruining the image the outside world has about our hobby?

No.

Metal Gear Solid isn't nearly popular enough.  It doesn't have the kind of universal pull and draw that games like Halo or first-tier Mario games have.  Those games are far more responsible for shaping public view of gaming than something relatively unknown to the public.

What you described is the "B-movie" aspect of the Metal Gear Solid franchise.  There are people, myself included, who will swear that Army of Darkness is a hell of a lot of fun.  And there are others who will say it's simply a bad B-movie.  Neither view is necessarily wrong.

Maybe I played different Metal Gear Solid games than you, but all I took from them was a bunch of over-the-top in-jokes and fourth wall breaking.

The MGS games aren't intended to be taken seriously.  They're supposed to be over the top and silly -- hell, the game periodically pokes fun at itself.