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Forums - General Discussion - where does it end ?

MrBubbles on 09 June 2008
fkusumot said:
MrBubbles said:
hypothetically....
Even if i were to believe that a particular religion is inherently evil wouldnt mean that i believe their children should be taken away from them or that they should be treated differently in the eyes of the law.

Hypothetically that means you are bullshitting.


oh ....thats right....i really feel that people should have their children taken away because i dont like their beliefs.  ive made this thread and made arguments to the contrary just for the fun of it.



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colonelstubbs on 09 June 2008

Freedom of speech innit



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fkusumot on 09 June 2008
MrBubbles said:
fkusumot said:
MrBubbles said:
hypothetically....
Even if i were to believe that a particular religion is inherently evil wouldnt mean that i believe their children should be taken away from them or that they should be treated differently in the eyes of the law.

Hypothetically that means you are bullshitting.


oh ....thats right....i really feel that people should have their children taken away because i dont like their beliefs. ive made this thread and made arguments to the contrary just for the fun of it.


 Are you confessing your sins?



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Slimebeast on 09 June 2008
The_vagabond7 said:
Honestly, I don't think there is too much wrong with taking children away before they become violent jew and gay hating racists. Plus the drugs and alcohol.

If it was just an unpopular belief that is one thing, but a violent hate filled belief system, well that's a different story. If they took kids away from a pair of cannibals, I don't think anyone would complain. I'm as liberal as the next guy, but trying to defend the spreading of neo-nazism to children isn't something I'm willing to defend. The last thing we need is more kids in high school with shaved heads and swastika tattoos bashing kids face into a curb because they might be a "fagot", simply because they had some jackhole of a dad that told them that is what they are supposed to do to "fagots".

Again, I'm liberal but a drug addict teaching neo-nazism to his kids is a tough sell.

Well, in that case I demand that the children of revolutionary communists should be taken away!



That Guy on 09 June 2008

There are two types of people in the world I hate:

1) People who aren't tolerant of other people's cultures
2) The Dutch



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Kasz216 on 09 June 2008
rocketpig said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Honestly, I don't think there is too much wrong with taking children away before they become violent jew and gay hating racists. Plus the drugs and alcohol.

If it was just an unpopular belief that is one thing, but a violent hate filled belief system, well that's a different story. If they took kids away from a pair of cannibals, I don't think anyone would complain. I'm as liberal as the next guy, but trying to defend the spreading of neo-nazism to children isn't something I'm willing to defend. The last thing we need is more kids in high school with shaved heads and swastika tattoos bashing kids face into a curb because they might be a "fagot", simply because they had some jackhole of a dad that told them that is what they are supposed to do to "fagots".

Again, I'm liberal but a drug addict teaching neo-nazism to his kids is a tough sell.

But it's not illegal. The government being able to remove children from their parents based on an idea is a very scary thing.


I'm going to have to agree.

It's really a violation of peoples rights, or at least would be in the US.  I'd bet the drugs excuse was either largely concoted or something only found out when investigating the nazi views.

 



Kasz216 on 09 June 2008
The_vagabond7 said:
Plus it may very well be illegal. Looking at the story again, this is the criteria for removing the children.

"the children may be at risk due to the parents' behavior and associates. The parents might endanger the emotional well-being of the children"

Now this could apply to a number of situations, not just on where somebody holds an unpopular belief. But if that unpopular belief does put your children in danger due to being around violent neo-nazis, and being irrevocably harmed emotionally, then it still applies. Kind of a "if the shoe fits" sort of thing.

You can use that kind of reasoning to keep children away from all sorts of groups.  Like the poor.

ion-storm on 09 June 2008
Kasz216 said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Plus it may very well be illegal. Looking at the story again, this is the criteria for removing the children.

"the children may be at risk due to the parents' behavior and associates. The parents might endanger the emotional well-being of the children"

Now this could apply to a number of situations, not just on where somebody holds an unpopular belief. But if that unpopular belief does put your children in danger due to being around violent neo-nazis, and being irrevocably harmed emotionally, then it still applies. Kind of a "if the shoe fits" sort of thing.

You can use that kind of reasoning to keep children away from all sorts of groups.  Like the poor.

Thats a great idea!



Yes

fkusumot on 09 June 2008
Kasz216 said:
The_vagabond7 said:
Plus it may very well be illegal. Looking at the story again, this is the criteria for removing the children.

"the children may be at risk due to the parents' behavior and associates. The parents might endanger the emotional well-being of the children"

Now this could apply to a number of situations, not just on where somebody holds an unpopular belief. But if that unpopular belief does put your children in danger due to being around violent neo-nazis, and being irrevocably harmed emotionally, then it still applies. Kind of a "if the shoe fits" sort of thing.

You can use that kind of reasoning to keep children away from all sorts of groups. Like the poor.

Well sure. It happens every day in family court. Although I don't think being poor is an unpopular "belief". 



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The_vagabond7 on 09 June 2008

Yeah, they actually will take your children away if you can't take care of them for financial reasons. But like Fkusumot said, that's not really a belief system.

As for jehovah's witness's they won't necessarily take their kids away, but in some instances they will overrule the parents decisions that they impose on their children, such as their refusal for blood transfusions. It's come up in a number of instances where they refuse to let their child have a blood transfusion in order to save their life (blood transfusions are considered disrespectful to life, since blood symbolizes life in god's eyes according to their interpretation of the bible). But if they are willing to let their kid die in order to uphold their own religious belief, then they can be over ruled to save the child's life. Though they have their legal teams continue to fight that tooth and nail. But that is neither here nor there.

The point is, if a system of beliefs is legitimately endangering a child's well being then the state has the right to remove the child from the harmful situation. I mean I can claim that my belief system dictates that I can come home to my kids get coked up, do some shrooms, after a few shots of Pure grain alcohol, but if my "beliefs" endanger my child then the state can take them away.

Neo-nazism isn't just some passive "oh I think the jews are in the wrong" sort of belief system, it's extremely violent, oppressive and harsh. I don't think I've ever read an experience of a well adjusted family man that happens to be a neo-nazi, and if such an experience exists it is an outlier, and not a common experience. They aren't removing the child because they think it's a bad system of beliefs, they are removing the child because it's a terrible home environment that is endangering the children's well being, the belief system is just what is causing that environment and isn't in an of itself the reason for removal.



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