Well said, That Guy.

 Anyways, I really haven't seen much "disproving God" around here, in fact all i've really seen is attacks on Christianity, Religion, and Christians. I guess no one can really disprove God or no one feels the need to. And also, Christianity, as a concept, is (as far as i see) flawless. The problem is those who call themselves Christians or Religous. The whole problems with this Science vs. Religion thing and all these Religious problems aren't mainly the fault of the religion or the science. All the conflicts come out of People. Humans. Why? Because humans are sinful, and by thier sinful nature they war against peace; they war against each other. Humans have to be more than just beasts of nature. They need to show reason and understanding, soul and spirit. They need to show the difference between a Human and an Animal.

But putting the issues of Humans aside, to answer the topic question, yes. There is a God. He Is what He Is. He always was and always will be. He has no origin and He has no end. Everything that you see is God and made of Him. God is Infinate and Omnipotent. He Is Everything, except for sin (for sin was not created). God is beyond the human mind, or beyond the mind of all created beings, all humans, beasts, angels and demons. The reason why there is a God? Because He just Is.

Right. This is a discussion of whether or not there is a God; this isn't "lets point all all the hypocrisy we see in organized religion today" those are two seperate threads.

As for myself, I like to think that we all are accountable for our actions. If there was no god, then whatever I do would ultimately have no meaning. Yes, my reason is not a scientific one, but moreso of a moral/ethical one.

If we were nothing more than just animals, then we wouldn't mind the wiping out of genetically "undesireables" in the world. In fact, this is what Hitler tried to do.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not equating all evolutionary scientists to Hitler, but there is a dark side of "social darwinism" that madmen like Hitler have explored.

on the subject of evolution, there have been spats as to semantics and meanings of words. Design is one word that's been argued. I believe that evolution isn't as *concrete* as its made out to be.

For example: We today have our own system to classifying animals. Kingdoms, Orders, Phylum, Genus, Species, etc. etc. We cannot expect the Bible to follow our arbitrary system of identifying animals. What significance is this?

Well for example Noah was commanded to bring two animals of each "kind" onto the ark. Well does that mean that Noah is to bring two Labradors, Two Bull Dogs, two pugs, two beagles, two poodles, etc. etc.? or Does it mean two dogs as in two of any dog? If its the latter, then all the animals of each kind would be a little bit more feasible.

What else does that mean? that means that "kinds" of animals allows for a speciation, or rather "microevolution" as it were. From two dogs comes all the types of dogs we see today. They may be different breeds or whatnot, but they are still dogs. The same applies to the genetic diversity of humans. Different kinds of people; we have arbitrary means of defining them as different "races" but we are all ultimately human. This can also explain the different kinds of finches Mr. Darwin observed on Galapagos (i think it was the galapagos). They were all finches, but there was enough genetic diversity speciate into different beak shapes.

just my two cents

First, evolution is not chance, anyone who has taken even a basic biology course knows the theory of evolution is far from chance. It is theoretically evolution that has taught us it is right to protect the weak, but it has nothing to do with the topic.

Second, all hate in the world caused by belief in god would not occur if such a personal god existed.

Third, we're all atheists in some respect, just some of us have taken it one god further than most.

Forth, the argument that we should do things to make a god - a man who lives in the sky - happy, is ridiculous. Doing good things matter enough just because they're good. It would take a sick person who ONLY did good things because they don't want to burn in hell, this sick person - IS most religious people, and thus MOST people on earth.

Fifth, there is no reason to believe in something there is no proof of, god is literally santa claus for adults. There is no more proof that a magical giant teapot floats around in space, than there is of god (borrowing the line from Dawkins). Someone will say, I'm certain, that such beliefs are not malignant - but when they create wars, and restrict my freedoms - they are. The more ridiculous the worse it is when it has power over society.

Sixth, if god heals people... why doesn't god heal amputees? Seems wrong to me. If god was perfect.. he would heal them as well. But there has NEVER been anyone who grew limbs back. Or maybe it is wrong of me to question who god maims and who he doesn't, I am so silly.

"some people believe that aliens helped the egyptians build the pyramids"

Don't you get it? This is the exact same thing as your belief in god.

qed

I'll try to make this concise.

1) I never stated that the theory of evolution was simply a matter of blind chance. But we are still talking about theory.  The fact that you mentioned that it is theorhetically evolution means that you don't know for sure. And agreed, it has nothing to do with the topic.

2) *Belief* in God and whether or not God *really* exists are two seperate topics. If I don't believe in the existence of aliens from other planets, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. The converse is also true. Again, we're not here to point out all the hypocritical things in organized religion today or in history.

3) I guess I have no response to that.

4) Sorry, don't have much of a response to that either. You have to be more specific than *most poeple on earth.* I can assure you that many religious people do things for other reasons rather than fear of going to hell. In fact, I'm pretty sure many atheists do good things for other reasons rather than fear of hell. Since when did *doing the good thing* become such a bad thing in your eyes? 

5) *proof* and evidence are two seperate things. In a court case, we have *evidence*: the weapon, the motive, the opportunity, witnesses etc. etc. but unless the jury actually went back in time to see the crime happen, there's no 100% PROOF. But in our world we can make a safe bet that with enough evidence, the jury can be sure that they made the right call as to guity of innocent.

So right now we are the jury. I would argue that we have lots of circumstantial evidence. The universe, life, the laws of nature, etc. etc. As the jury, we have to put the pieces together ourselves and make a conclusion. Saying that you believe in God/don't believe in God without careful consideration would be the same as saying someone was guilty/not guilty without looking at any evidence or testimony. 

6) *if* God heals people? From where do you make that conjecture? The bible? where?  I cannot respond to your points if you are making statements out of nowhere.

1) Evolution IS based on chance. Any time you say that something happened WITHOUT intelligent intervention, that is, by definition, chance.

2) This is completely absurd! If you said something, then someone took you out of context and killed another person in your name, it would not prove you didn't exist. That's the twisted logic you followed to get to your conclusion.

3) What?? Huh?? The definition for athiest is 'One who believes there is no diety'. I believe in god (a diety), therefore I am not an athiest... what is your point?

4) The problem with your argument is that it falls apart when examined. By stating that there is good, you are also stating that there is evil. By recognizing that there is good and evil, you are recognizing that there is a moral LAW by which to make this determination. For a moral law to exist, there has to be a moral law giver, and he is the one you are trying to disprove.

Animals have no moral law, they do as they see fit, kill and eat other animals, kill each other, sleep with any female they can get with, are violent to get what they want. That is because God didn't give them a moral law to live by. The bible says 'I will write my laws on their hearts'. The Human Conscience cannot be explained apart from the existence of a higher power.

5) I have cited many different proofs that God exists, whether you agree with them is your choice, but blanket statements like this are just a lazy way to debate.

Edit: By saying that there's no reason to believe in anything without proof is to say that there's no reason for scientists to believe in Dark Matter, a theory that is very widely accepted in spite of the fact that there's no way  to prove it exists

6) There is a recorded healing of an amputee: And one of them struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his right ear. But Jesus answered and said, "Stop! No more of this." And He touched his ear and healed him. (Luke 22:50-51) Perhaps the reason we haven't seen that since then is because there hasn't been anyone with enough faith to do that. God can do whatever he wants.

 Edit: Jesus said to his followers 'Greater works than these you will do', he also said 'all authority in heaven and on earth belong to me, and I give that to you' (paraphrasing both of these). The reason we don't see 'greater works' is because believers don't realize they have the power to do this if they would just believe.

Edit: A few proofs of God:

About 4 years ago, a woman at my church who's back had been fused since a horse riding accident when she was 13 got prayed for and we heard a popping sound. She was instantly able to move her back in ways she hadn't been able to for a long time.

My sister was on a missions trip to Africa 2 years ago. While driving up a muddy hill, the truck got stuck. When several of the guys went to push it up the hill, it rolled back over one boy's left leg and literally snapped his tibia in half. They prayed for it, and there are about 20 eyewitnesses, including 2 doctors that watched the leg snap back in place. The young man was up and walking with no swelling within 5 minutes of having his leg broken.

6 years ago, I was in a pretty bad car accident that left my back 'permanently damaged' according to my orthopedic surgeon (I never underwent surgery, but He examined me and perscribed physical therapy). I had severely sprained my back, damaged some disks, and stretched some connecting ligaments. 2 years ago I got prayer in my church and have not had any recurrences of that back pain since that day. It literally went from moderate to severe pain EVERY DAY, to virtually none at all.

A very good friend of mine slipped on some grease when we both worked at chic-fil-a. As he fell, his thumb hooked over a countertop and bent back to his wrist. I saw this happen. It made a popping sound as it went out of joint, and again when it popped back in as he grabbed it. He could not move it at all after that. He went to the doctor, and was told that he had torn the ligament away from the bone, and would need surgery to regain movement. Three or four days later at his church, the speaker said that somone had an injured thumb and God wanted to heal it. My friend raised his hand and felt a 'pop'. He immediately gained movement, and the pain and swelling went away. He went back to the doctor (an athiest) and told him the story. The doctor didn't believe, and actually laughed at him. After nearly 10 x-rays (this was a stubborn doctor), the doctor sat down in front of my friend and said "Tell me about this God". The doctor got saved that day.

These are things I can personally attest to. Don't tell me that there is 'no proof' that God exists. Blanket statements like that will get you nowhere.

Insulting people's intelligence or beliefs in this way is a very lazy form of disagreement & debate.

It's on the same level as- Oh yeah? Well you're STOOOOPID! *sticks tounge out*

Let's keep it mature.

God was real, but this thread killed him.

Well put. The reason you haven't seen much "disproving God" is that it really can't be done. Just like scientists can neither prove nor disprove the existance of dark matter*. So to believe that there is no God without concrete proof that he doesn't requires just as much faith as believing that he does exist.

*For those who don't know what dark matter is, scientists calculated how much matter and energy should exist for what they were seeing to 'make sense', for the laws of physics to work as they were. What they found is that they only saw about 3% of the matter and energy needed for the universe to 'make sense', so they came up with the concept of dark matter- A substance that cannot be measured or observed by any human methods, but 'has to exist' because the universe wouldn't make sense without it. Along with the dark matter, they also came up with the concept of dark energy. The combination of both of these non-proveable factors completed their equation. I find it interesting that the Bible says "He holds the worlds (universe) together by the word of His power". This was said long before an understanding of physics or the universe was attained. I personally believe that this 'missing', or 'dark' matter and energy are the spirit world that actually holds the physical world together. It's amazing how the Bible and science can fit together so well. The Bible defined dark matter before humans even discovered gravity.

"So to believe that there is no God without concrete proof that he doesn't requires just as much faith as believing that he does exist."

I disagree. The definition of Faith is a belief without evidence or proof. There is evidence that the universe was created the way scientists theorize. (IE Big Bang) And based on this definition, you cannot have faith in something that can be proven or observed. You can have faith in something that has been disproven. Otherwise it is an observation. Theories require testability and proof to be theories. Since there is no evidence that the universe was created by god, religions rely on faith.

"It's amazing how the Bible and science can fit together so well."

Not quite as good as Dark Side of the Moon and Wizard of Oz. Now that was truly God's work!