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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - My thoughts on what's Wii's standard graphics should look like

Developers are just lazy because they know a lot of people will still buy the games anyway.




Nintendo still doomed?
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I agree. Why move on when you don't even understand a weaker system? Maybe Nintendo did it right this time. Maybe you need to take a step backward to take step foward. Do you want to wait 2+ years for the same game that could be made with suffient graphics on the wii in 2- years? Do you want to pay 100million to make a game, only to find that, if it's not a sequel, it's not going to sell?  Actually, very few games on the HD consoles are not sequels. The "tried and true" formula is being used alot this generation. Epic's meaning of "better graphics" is to add more gray and brown. Look inside the GOW1 and GOW2 comparison inside EGM. I can't see any difference other than the addition of gray and brown in the sequel screenshots.

"If it aint a sequel, it probably aint going to sell". Big developers like Ubisoft and Activision cannot learn to take a step back. Staying on the bleeding edge of technology is not always great. Does anyone really need internet connected refridgerators or Roomba? Sure, it's convienient, but is it really worth the money? Im sure that developers never squeezed the power out of the Gamecube. It's just that they have to be so close the bleeding edge of technology, it eventually hurts them. If you don't understand a concept, or a CPU archutecture, you try to optimize you efforts to get it. How can you move onto something harder if you haven't even go the basic concepts yet? Thus, the move onto Middleware engines. 

Epic is living off the ignorance of developers. They cannot get enough profits to risk a new idea, and even developing a sequel costs to much to develop a new engine for. "The tried and true always works". But how can there be new ideas if they are not tried? There is a "blue ocean" of oportunities, yet developers fight in the "red ocean" of existing genres. One FPS, Z game , or racing games after another. When will people get bored? But because of the excalatiing costs of developing in HD, they cannot afford to make risks. Alas, the green ocean strategy is born. 

Green Ocean: Dump gallons and gallons of factory wastes such as Dogz and RRR5000 inside the blue ocean(the wii), hoping that it will get you closer to being able to get rid of the "problem"(expensive hd games). After polluting the blue ocean with crap, they go back to their work on the land working on Sequel after sequel.  Little do they know that the ocean will come back to haunt them. Sheets of paper(Wii sales reports) and syringes(success on the wii) stab them on their feet on beaches. But they are too far inside the cycle to excape. They already dumped the crap inside the ocean, and it's become green, reflecting their greed. They either clean up their mess(3rd party crap) and find better methods to deal with the problem(developing for the wii) or suffer problems that will take decades to fix. Right now, people like Ubisoft are in the dumping stage. They are hating the wii for changing their addiction of staying on the edge of technology.

Luckily, small developers such as Nnooo, High Voltage software and Bionic games are betting the boat on the wii.  And none of them are sequels. On the wii, without the necesity to create expensive "HD" graphics, they can afford to take a risk on a new IP. However, that doesn't mean the game looks horrible. By FAR! Wii's graphics are sufficient enough to gamers, yet they are not too expensive for developers to implement. They will probably become very succesful with ideas that the HD consoles wouldn't allow them to create because of budget. 

 Conclution: Nintendo hit the right spot between upgrading and staying just the right amount below hte technology curve so that the graphics look great, yet they aren't expensive for the developers to make. The developers hate the wii and are reluctant to create games for them because it's challenging their thinking for the first time in history. However, when the Small developers become successful, and syringes start popping up on their land, they better respond. Cause otherwise, their going to be suffering, making sequel after sequel just like take2. 



Mifely said:
Bored4life said:
supermetalrockdave99 said:
Mifely said:
supermetalrockdave99 said:
All those numbers when comparing the Wii with the Xbox 1 don't really mean anything since the Wii is *supposed* to be developed completely differently than the other systems due to it's unique architecture (which Third Parties don't seem to know or care or use)

Read this: http://revoeyes.blogspot.com/2007/09/wii-can-do-lot-more-graphically-factor.html

Another Factor 5 interview but this time the Wii is being compared to the PS3. Remember that raw numbers don't mean anything; it's the performance and the resulting look of the game that are the key and Julian from Factor 5 explains why this is true for the Wii and why games can look almost as good as PS3 in SD.

I remember CNN posting an article about a decade ago about how, before or by 2008, robots would be intelligent enough to threaten mankind. Here's a link:

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/science/9802/18/swiss.robot/

Don't believe everything you read. Heck, Julian Eggbrecht is a designer, not an engineer, even, isn't he?


Bad example my friend, Julian Eggbrecht and Factor 5 helped research the development of the Gamecube and they probably know the system better than Nintendo themselves. Rebel Strke is proof enough since that game still looks awesome with something like 20 million full shaded textured polygons running at a consistant 60 frames per second. Trust him when he says he knows what the Wii can do in relation to the other systems. I actually thought it was pretty funny that you thought that was a fake story....


Rogue Leader was 16 million.

The engine allowed it to do 22 million with full bump mapping at 60 fps.


...

I think I realize why this discussion has continued so long. Keep in mind that a single vertex is typically represented by at least 3 floating point values. Each floatiing point number is 4 bytes... that's 12 bytes per vertex, assuming you have no color, no texture coordinates, etc. Lets say you have decent artists, or triangle stripping tech, and they share verts pretty well... so that, on average, each triangle only needs about 2 verts, due to triangle fans and strips.

Throw in a single texture coordinate (2 more floats == 8 more bytes)... 20 bytes/vert, 40 bytes (on average, per polygon, because your artists are good). 40 bytes per polygon... divide the system memory by 40... how many polys can you fit in memory at once, with NO code or other data on the machine? How many if you used some custom 16-bit fixed-point values instead of 32?

I think you're misinterpreting what you're reading, gentlemen.


 The real problem here is that Factor 5 themselves revealed information that you clearly had no idea existed hence your shock in the previous comments.This is looking like a situation where you want to believe what you want.We've given you the info.So please go to this site and look it up for yourself if you are genuinely interested.

www.google.com 

GC fans had to put up with a lot of lies and other shit last gen and the whole MS bullshit about Xboxblowing away the GC was just one of them.Hopefully with the Wii winning much needed revisionism will most likely occur.

 



Prediction:
Disney will make KH3 with Nintendo.Yes,KH3 will be a Disney/Nintendo crossover.

Save the industry,Kill a Hardcore gamer

Stopped buying Ubisoft games.Will not buy Red Steel 2.Let them struggle on HD. Click here for a solution:CLICK
ALERT: I have also exposed a UBI'Z'OFT viral marketer in THIS thread.Read my posts, see the set up and watch how everything crumbles on page 8. Please learn from this experience.

@ Mifely I got 2306867 without anything else running. Are you sure you are using ALL of the systems memory. All 88 mbs.



I didn't find the exact link for the Rebel Strike stuff, but I found something better that actually details everything about the Gamecube on a tech level step by step:

http://www.segatech.com/gamecube/overview/index.html

It is a long read but it has everything you'd want including the 20 million polygons with no hit to performance which means 60 frames per second.



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blackbird3216 said:

Conclution: Nintendo hit the right spot between upgrading and staying just the right amount below hte technology curve so that the graphics look great, yet they aren't expensive for the developers to make. The developers hate the wii and are reluctant to create games for them because it's challenging their thinking for the first time in history. However, when the Small developers become successful, and syringes start popping up on their land, they better respond. Cause otherwise, their going to be suffering, making sequel after sequel just like take2.


 Second my friend.

Don't forget when Nintendo did it the first time with the NES.It seems that history is doomed to repeat itself.



Prediction:
Disney will make KH3 with Nintendo.Yes,KH3 will be a Disney/Nintendo crossover.

Save the industry,Kill a Hardcore gamer

Stopped buying Ubisoft games.Will not buy Red Steel 2.Let them struggle on HD. Click here for a solution:CLICK
ALERT: I have also exposed a UBI'Z'OFT viral marketer in THIS thread.Read my posts, see the set up and watch how everything crumbles on page 8. Please learn from this experience.

U want graphics buy a 360 or playstation....



Proud Owner of  a Wii and Xbox 360 and a PS3(When I get the money)

Everstar said:
U want graphics buy a 360 or playstation....

 That has nothing to do with the topic, and I just reported the post. 



I think developers will start pushing the wii once it get's more support. The reason why most wii games didn't look too well the last year was because nintendos dev kit was a gamecube one upgraded slightly. They jsut released a wii specific one in the beginning of this year, and we are already seeing some graphical improvements in the wii exclusives. In the ps2 mutliplats we should see at least games that are pushing the ps2s graphics, but we don't.



sc94597 said:
I think developers will start pushing the wii once it get's more support. The reason why most wii games didn't look too well the last year was because nintendos dev kit was a gamecube one upgraded slightly. They jsut released a wii specific one in the beginning of this year, and we are already seeing some graphical improvements in the wii exclusives. In the ps2 mutliplats we should see at least games that are pushing the ps2s graphics, but we don't.

Wrong.

The real reason is that outside of Nintendo and Factor5 no one learnt how to push the GC(not even Capcom with RE4).

They never learnt the hardware and just made poor ps2 ports to the system.

They had a field day insulting the Wii graphics and now it has come to haunt them.Expect bigger third party companies(SquareEnix,Konami etc.) to finally learn the system and learn how to push it after 2010.These jackasses are basically giving Nintendo the opportunity to release a next console as late as 2015.

And people ask me why I hate third parties?



Prediction:
Disney will make KH3 with Nintendo.Yes,KH3 will be a Disney/Nintendo crossover.

Save the industry,Kill a Hardcore gamer

Stopped buying Ubisoft games.Will not buy Red Steel 2.Let them struggle on HD. Click here for a solution:CLICK
ALERT: I have also exposed a UBI'Z'OFT viral marketer in THIS thread.Read my posts, see the set up and watch how everything crumbles on page 8. Please learn from this experience.