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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - 'Hardcore' vs 'Casual': What really sells?

This is a pretty much constant theme in Nintendo Discussion but I haven't seen a breakdown of actual sales anywhere in said threads.

These are the million selling Wii games according to VG Chartz (some data is missing but it's the best we've got to go on). I've designated them hardcore or casual. Feel free to disagree as it's a crappy and arbitrary distinction anyway but one the industry is obsessed by and probably will be for a while yet. If I can imagine my parents or a non-gaming friend wanting to play it I've labelled it casual. So basically casual here means accessible. Core gamers may also like it. IMO MK, Sonic, Lego Star Wars and GH3 don't fit into either because they have very easy and very core aspects so I've labelled them "both".

PosGameConsolePublisherHitsScoreSales
1
Wii Sports
Nintendo48,6167.8623.66m
2
Wii Play
Nintendo26,3126.8312.49m
3
Super Mario Galaxy
Nintendo135,2328.126.56m
4
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Nintendo89,9308.035.38m
5
Mario Party 8
Nintendo24,5027.465.20m
6
Mario Kart Wii
Nintendo44,1417.785.12m
7
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Nintendo36,7348.264.81m
8
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Sega8,1737.764.44m
9
Wii Fit
Nintendo46,1327.864.37m
10
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
RedOctane18,9927.692.70m
11
Big Brain Academy: Wii DegreeNintendo8,9267.412.37m
12
Wario Ware: Smooth MovesNintendo6,5967.382.34m
13
Super Paper MarioNintendo14,7317.792.34m
14
Link's Crossbow Training
Nintendo14,6987.341.98m
15
Carnival Games
Global Star10,5127.241.86m
16
Mario Strikers ChargedNintendo15,7727.801.65m
17
Resident Evil 4: Wii EditionCapcom47,9338.131.60m
18
Metroid Prime 3: CorruptionNintendo52,2148.091.37m
19
Sonic and the Secret RingsSega11,7207.751.37m
20
Rayman Raving RabbidsUbisoft6,8747.661.34m
21
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga
LucasArts10,4117.751.24m
22
Resident Evil: Umbrella ChroniclesCapcom33,0407.771.22m
23
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2Ubisoft11,9837.751.20m
24
MySimsElectronic Arts6,9187.251.07m
25
Red SteelUbisoft5,6587.041.05m

Wii Sports - casual

Wii Play - casual

Super Mario Galaxy - hardcore

Super Smash Bros Brawl - hardcore

Mario Party 8 - casual

Mario Kart Wii - both

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - hardcore

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games - casual

Wii Fit - casual

Guitar Hero 3 - both

Big Brain Academy - casual

WarioWare - casual

Super Paper Mario - hardcore

Link's Crossbow Training - casual

Carnival Games - casual

Mario Strikers Charged - casual

Resident Evil 4 - hardcore

Metroid Prime 3 - hardcore

Sonic and the Secret Rings - both

Rayman Raving Rabbids - casual

Lego Star Wars - both

Resident Evil UC - hardcore

Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 - casual

My Sims - casual

Red Steel - hardcore

 

I'm sure people will disagree with some but if we go with those that gives us 13/25 casual, 4/25 both and 8/25 hardcore.

Total sales:

Casual - 63.97m - average of 4.92m per game. If we exclude Wii Sports (but remember it's what persuaded to vast majority of casuals to get a Wii in the first place) then we get 40.31m - average of 3.36m per game.

Both - 10.43m - average of 2.61m per game.

Hardcore - 24.33m - average of 3.04m per game.

I'm not pretending this is scientific or fully representative. There are lots of casual games languishing at the bottom with very poor sales and everyone is going to disagree with at least one of the categorisations I've made. Casual games are also likely to make a profit off lower sales than a hardcore game could. But it does show where this "the Wii only sells to casuals" comes from. Even though the average sales per game is roughly the same for hardcore or casual there are more casual games shifting big units, leading to much larger total sales of casual games. If you're a publisher like Ubisoft wanting to make fast money it's easy to see why you'd get the idea that casual is the way to go. Casual doesn't have to mean bad though. There are several games I've labelled casual that I'd be happy to play and I'm sure most people on this board would too.



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Nice analysis. Furthermore, if we remove Wii Play too (it's unclear how many people would buy it were it not for the remote), the average goes down to 2.53m sold units per casual title.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Defining a game (or a gamer) as "Hard-Core" or "Casual" is meaningless because it trivializes both the game and those who choose to play it ... The vast majority of Million selling Wii titles are conventional games which would not seem dramatically out of place had they been produced for the Gamecube or PS2.



HappySqurriel said:

Defining a game (or a gamer) as "Hard-Core" or "Casual" is meaningless because it trivializes both the game and those who choose to play it ... The vast majority of Million selling Wii titles are conventional games which would not seem dramatically out of place had they been produced for the Gamecube or PS2.


How many people complained that the PS2 dance mat games were 'too casual' and that they were 'destroying the market' like Wii games are? None.



HappySqurriel said:

Defining a game (or a gamer) as "Hard-Core" or "Casual" is meaningless because it trivializes both the game and those who choose to play it ... The vast majority of Million selling Wii titles are conventional games which would not seem dramatically out of place had they been produced for the Gamecube or PS2.

That's what I said in the first post. We know that, but the industry is insistent on categorising people. As long as they do that then harcore vs casual matters because it determines the games they choose to develop or publish, as we've seen in the Ubisoft thread. They're putting the games they deem hardcore like Prince of Persia on the HD consoles and the games they deem casual like Dogz and Imagine Babyz on the Wii.

 



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It all depends on how heavily the game is marketed or if its an established franchise. If it isn't either, the game must be really good and sell through word of mouth.



Leatherhat on July 6th, 2012 3pm. Vita sales:"3 mil for COD 2 mil for AC. Maybe more. "  thehusbo on July 6th, 2012 5pm. Vita sales:"5 mil for COD 2.2 mil for AC."

Oh Jesus........
There are bloody & non-bloody,
There are traditional & non-traditional(Wii Fit)
There are kiddie(ok,ok.. kids friendy), non-kiddie(mature) & granny(suitable for elder)

There are Nintendo & non-Nintendo, & the answer will always be Nintendo



Poor PS3 Sales Means Smaller Losses

"Actually, because the number of units sold was not as high as we hoped, the loss was better than our original expectation," Quotes from Sony’s CFO Nobuyuki Oneda.

ferret1603 said:

 

PosGameConsolePublisherHitsScoreSales
1
Wii Sports
Nintendo48,6167.8623.66m
2
Wii Play
Nintendo26,3126.8312.49m
3
Super Mario Galaxy
Nintendo135,2328.126.56m
4
Super Smash Bros Brawl
Nintendo89,9308.035.38m
5
Mario Party 8
Nintendo24,5027.465.20m
6
Mario Kart Wii
Nintendo44,1417.785.12m
7
The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess
Nintendo36,7348.264.81m
8
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Sega8,1737.764.44m
9
Wii Fit
Nintendo46,1327.864.37m
10
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock
RedOctane18,9927.692.70m
11
Big Brain Academy: Wii DegreeNintendo8,9267.412.37m
12
Wario Ware: Smooth MovesNintendo6,5967.382.34m
13
Super Paper MarioNintendo14,7317.792.34m
14
Link's Crossbow Training
Nintendo14,6987.341.98m
15
Carnival Games
Global Star10,5127.241.86m
16
Mario Strikers ChargedNintendo15,7727.801.65m
17
Resident Evil 4: Wii EditionCapcom47,9338.131.60m
18
Metroid Prime 3: CorruptionNintendo52,2148.091.37m
19
Sonic and the Secret RingsSega11,7207.751.37m
20
Rayman Raving RabbidsUbisoft6,8747.661.34m
21
Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga
LucasArts10,4117.751.24m
22
Resident Evil: Umbrella ChroniclesCapcom33,0407.771.22m
23
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2Ubisoft11,9837.751.20m
24
MySimsElectronic Arts6,9187.251.07m
25
Red SteelUbisoft5,6587.041.05m

Wii Sports - casual

Wii Play - casual

Super Mario Galaxy - hardcore (Casual)

Super Smash Bros Brawl - hardcore (Casual)

Mario Party 8 - casual

Mario Kart Wii - both (Casual)

The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess - hardcore

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games - casual

Wii Fit - casual

Guitar Hero 3 - both (Casual)

Big Brain Academy - casual

WarioWare - casual

Super Paper Mario - hardcore

Link's Crossbow Training - casual

Carnival Games - casual

Mario Strikers Charged - casual

Resident Evil 4 - hardcore

Metroid Prime 3 - hardcore

Sonic and the Secret Rings - both

Rayman Raving Rabbids - casual

Lego Star Wars - both

Resident Evil UC - hardcore

Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 - casual

My Sims - casual

Red Steel - hardcore

I think you're a bit too generous with the term "hardcore" in your list.

Who would play these games? If most people that play them, are casual gamers then they are casual games. The games at the top have a casual apeal and sell well because everyone likes them. The ones down the bottom are hardcore and sell to a smaller audience.


 



Tease.

Soleron said:
HappySqurriel said:

Defining a game (or a gamer) as "Hard-Core" or "Casual" is meaningless because it trivializes both the game and those who choose to play it ... The vast majority of Million selling Wii titles are conventional games which would not seem dramatically out of place had they been produced for the Gamecube or PS2.


How many people complained that the PS2 dance mat games were 'too casual' and that they were 'destroying the market' like Wii games are? None.


 dance mat = Guitar hero.

 

how many people here claiming GH3 is "destroying the market"??? none

How many people here claiming that Carnvial the game is doing the same? Well, can't speak for others, but I have.



Soriku (Feb 10/08): In 5 years the PS3/360 will be dead.

KH3 bet: "If KH3 comes to Wii exclusive, I will take a 1 month of sig/avatar by otheres open a thread apologize and praise you guys' brilliance." http://vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?start=50&id=18379
Original cast: Badonkadonkhr, sc94597 allaboutthegames885, kingofwale, Soriku, ctk495, skeezer, RDBRaptor, Mirson,

Episode 1: OOPSY!
selnor
: Too Human I even expect 3-4 mill entire life and 500,000 first day. GoW2 ( expect 7 - 9 million entire life and over 2 mill first day), Fable 2 (expect 5-6 million entire life and 1.5 mill fist day) BK3 (expect 4 - 5 mill sales entire life and 1 mill first day).. Tales/IU/TLR should get to 2 or 3 million! post id: 868878
Episode 2:
Letsdance: FFXIII (PS3+360) first week in NA = 286K
According to pre-order rate in week 13 (post id: 2902544)

Sadly most 3rd parties have the same understanding as the OP and thus continue to fail.



Prediction:
Disney will make KH3 with Nintendo.Yes,KH3 will be a Disney/Nintendo crossover.

Save the industry,Kill a Hardcore gamer

Stopped buying Ubisoft games.Will not buy Red Steel 2.Let them struggle on HD. Click here for a solution:CLICK
ALERT: I have also exposed a UBI'Z'OFT viral marketer in THIS thread.Read my posts, see the set up and watch how everything crumbles on page 8. Please learn from this experience.