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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Digital distribution thoughts

@words of wisdom - true, the cpu and gpu are the hottest, but a constantly running laser isn't helping things. No laser for the optical drive, cooler temps. Plus removal of the optical and internal HD can allow for a smaller physical unit, or more space for cooling.

I agree on solid state, I thought initially that if we could get 50 gb ssd's for a comparable cost, the developers could put their games on that, which would allow them to be directly written to for updates, etc. Yet it just doesn't seem like a possible reality, with DVDs costing like 90 cents each. Optical media is the cheapest, thats why its so preferred. My line of thought is to remove the media from the developers' & publishers' cost, and have it brought to the hardware itself. Right now a 1 TB firewire external HD can be bought for $240. In a few years, that price should drop considerably. Once it drops under the $100 mark, it might well be a feasible solution to console development. Take out the need for an optical and a HD inside the machine, and you have the majority of your cost trade off, especially in Sony's case with the cost of the Blu Ray



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But why? Why take the drive into a store to download games when you have the same capability at home? And if you're one of the 5% of console owners without a broadband connection, you'll still know someone who has one.

And this is minor, but USB 2.0 speeds are comparable to Firewire -- or close enough that it probably wouldn't be worth building an extra port into consoles and bringing in nonstandard harddrives.



@ OP: You do realize that by your logic, DVD's would be considered digital distribution as well?

 

(Not speaking of the OP, but internet people in general) I think people are clamoring for something different and new so much that they'll just latch on to any idea....no matter how impractical it would be to carry out.

I don't have as much of a problem with games that require online connectivity to function being distributed digitally, but movies and music? Not a chance! Give me my physical media! Especially with movies - I don't want low quality, super compressed downloads - and this is the supposed "HD" movies that I'm talking about.



i think optical distribution is only usefull when its pay to keep, i hate renting films, if im paying my money for a film, i expect to be able to watch it as many times as i like, not once in 24 hours. As for gaming, as long as its pay to keep then i think it would be good for games, i have a few XBLA games and i downloaded some PS1 games on PSN.



Personally, I'm waiting for punch cards to make a strong comeback.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

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@borkachev - Usb 2.0 is not nearly as fast as Firewire. This is why pro audio and movie people use Firewire for their media transfers. Try watching a movie streamed from a USB 2.0 drive and then from a FireWire drive. There's a significant difference. Now, theres USB 3.0 coming down the line, which will be faster than Firewire. But USB 2.0 vs Firewire is like having a race between a 3 legged donkey and a race horse. Also, you ask why? Well, lets say a game is 50 GB big. On today's network connections, that could still be a several hour download. Sure, you could do that if you want, but for those that don't want, they can go to the store and have it locally installed. Downloadable games were never out of the question, but people's main argument to that idea is that the connection speeds aren't nearly there yet to download a full sized game.

@epsilion - DVD is optical media, complete with all its flaws. A hard drive doesn't require a laser to transfer the media off of it, as it is already in the format that the computer can process. This is why hard drives are so much better than DVD drives. For example, it's why there are installs on bigger games like GTA4 - faster transfer speeds. The train of thought already exists in the development world, it is just waiting on a solution to finally rid itself of optical media due to the cheap cost of the actual media itself. An additiion of a high speed hard drive that is in a decent price range for manufacturing could match the costs of an internal HD and an optical drive, and it would eliminate manufacturing costs for the publisher/developer. It's just a matter of getting a fast drive with enough storage space at a reasonable price. IMO, it's more a matter of when than if.



bardicverse said:
ferret1603 said:
If it takes off I'll probably stop gaming. I buy my games second hand or heavily discounted. The WiiWare games are too expensive to appeal to me. If everything is distributed digitally there will be no second hand games and retailers wouldn't have left-over stock that needs heavily discounting to get rid of. Everything would be sold at full price or a small discount and there's no way I'd pay £40 for a game.

Agreed though, it is a market I didn't consider. It pretty much WOULD end resale value of a game. A question for you - how much on average do you pay for your used games?

 


£3 on average. The most I've ever paid was £20 for a brand new game and I don't plan on doing that again.



@borkachev - Usb 2.0 is not nearly as fast as Firewire. This is why pro audio and movie people use Firewire for their media transfers. Try watching a movie streamed from a USB 2.0 drive and then from a FireWire drive. There's a significant difference.

Firewire is faster, but I wouldn't call it significant. In real-world tests, it ranges from about 16-70% faster than USB 2.0. What I'm saying is that a performance difference like that isn't worth adding a rarely-used standard like Firewire onto a console when it already has the ubiquitous USB.



bardicverse said:

I posted this in response to another conversation, but I figured it had enough merit to begin new discussion. So here it is:

What people don't realize is that digital distribution can be done in other forms than downloads. Take a firewire hard drive, for example. Put a firewire port into a console, hook up a 500 GB HD, and you have faster access speeds than you would have off of optical media, with a lot less heat buildup inside the system. No laser, no internal HD, it'd be a breeze (no pun intended ) to build a high end system without wasting time on keeping the unit supercooled.

Back on the firewire hard drive. You can unplug the drive anytime you want, and have it embedded with a registered serial number. Take your drive to your local game dealer, they register your purchase online, and load the game onto the drive from their local server in the store. If your HD fails, they verify the failed HD serial number, authorize a new HD for your account, and you can get your games added back on, free of charge. Need more HD space? Buy another firewire HD drive, and you're all set.

I see this as the way that the industry will go, in addition to downloadable content. Optical media has one foot in the grave.

Before you go and say "but I like holding onto physical copies of games, movies, music, etc" just remember that all that manufacturing takes up resources (plastic is made from oil products, energy costs to run assembly lines). Also, by not having to spend money making "hard copies", developers/publishers can pass the savings from the process to the customer in the form of cheaper games. Also, videogames won't have to fight for shelf space, as they'd all just be digital, on the local servers. You won't have to worry about a game being sold out, or phased out due to age. It will always be there sitting on the server, waiting to be copied to your HD.

Of course, a 500GB FW HD is common these days, who's to say that a TB FW HD won't be common within the next 4 years? Or maybe even that a faster port connection, faster than firewire might be available by then?


USB 2 - 480 Mb/s

Firewire 400 - 400 Mb/s

FireWire 800 - 800 Mb/s

USB 3 Expected to be 10 times as fast (ie 4800 Mb/s)

(I can't remember if they were bits per second or bytes, oh well)

 

Now, as for your idea of harddrive downloads

It offers the disadvantages of optical media (You have to go to the shops to buy stuff)

AND the disadvantages of Downloadable games (You can't sell 2nd hand games) 

 

I'll pass thanks 



scottie - For reference on why the transfers are actually faster on Firewire - http://www.cwol.com/firewire/firewire-vs-usb.htm

 http://www.usb-ware.com/firewire-vs-usb.htm

http://www.directron.com/firewirevsusb.html 

as for the "disadvantages", they're not so much. So you cant resell downloadable games. The games would cost less in the first place, so your 50 dvd game would cost 30 as a dload, and you'd have only been able to resell it for 20, so you'd have spent the same cash anyway. the only people that would need to tkae their hd to the store are people who didnt want to dload such a big file, thats it. it's just a plan b to the online method, no different than shopping online vs. shopping at a mall. the only difference is that you dont have to wait a week for the item to ship.


So pass if you like, but if you do , you're talking about ending your gaming career within a generation or 2.