By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Will Ninty lose the war if Sony & M$ develop similar or better controller?

Killergran said:
Squilliam said:
pakidan101 said:

Source: http://malstrom.50webs.com/shield.htm, Portion of Malstrom's Shield article

 

-(Growth Driven) Co-option of the Disruption

After the disruptor proves the New Market does exist and is viable, incumbents attempt to mimic the disruptor in order to gain access to the New Market. This co-option is a counterattack that will stop the disruptor (for the disruptor loses the new market base to move to upper tiers). Unless the disruptor has no shield (asymmetries of motivation), or if the motivations of the disruptor and incumbent are the same, co-option will successfully prevail. An example of co-option would be incumbent telephone companies responding to wireless technology to sell it to new users. The incumbent missed much of the new growth but is eventually able to tap into the New Market. Since wireless had the same motivation as the incumbents, the disruptors had no shield and were absorbed.

In order to withstand counter attack, sufficient asymmetries of motivation must be developed for the disruptor (what Christensen refers to as the ‘shield’). For example, Microsoft can imitate the Wii with a Wii remote knockoff but the motivation for creating it is very different from Nintendo’s. Microsoft will not have the passion to go after non-users and low demanding consumers in the way Nintendo did. If the reader happens to be a professional analyst and needs translation, this means what matters now is no longer the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog.

Microsofts motivation? They want to create a total multimedia package for people, sell it and make a lot of money. Essentially the same scenario as Nintendo except replace multimedia with just games.

WRONG. It's not at all the same. It's actually very far from the same, and it's the basis of the entire shield argument. The question is why MS didn't create a wiimote in the first place. The answer is they were trying to do something different. Microsoft is still looking to giving the customer what the customer wants (bigger, better, faster, stronger). Nintendo is looking to provide the customer with a new way to play games. Nintendo wanted to make the WiiMote an extension of the body. To improve the connection between the game and the person, the interface. This type of thinking does not exist within Microsoft at all, if it did, MS would have had a controller that actually differed from it's previous one.

Read the PINK below.

Microsoft as a company is so successful because if you to make a program for personal computers you make it on their platform generally. They provide some of the best tools in the industry and we have heard time and again how much easier it is to program for their system that competitors. They act as a facilitator in partnership with third parties to create the compelling offerings they have in the marketplace. Windows is a prime example of this. Microsoft is a company that attempts to encompass all of the market, so to say that their motivations aren't aligned with providing something for everyone is crass.

And now that Microsoft understands there is a new way to reach more people they are going to go after the new gaps in the market, especially since Nintendo seems to have done as much if not more downstreaming than upstreaming. They have every incentive to throw every effort behind getting that market thats sitting untapped between the Xbox360 and the Wii. They can leverage their third party support, Xboxlive arcade, XNA, and Multimedia content to accelerate their movement downwind.

Everything that the Wii can do, the Xbox360 can do. But not everything the Xbox360 can do the Wii can do. True. But Microsoft can't do everything that NINTENDO can do, because of the assymetries of motivation. Microsoft relies heavily on innovative third party offerings, they just want to act as the middle-man. Its the third parties that Microsoft will use to compete with the Wii.   Essentially the Xbox360 is more capable as a platform to deliver to more people than the Wii.But do people really care about that? When you can make the most people the happiest you make the most money. Its a lot easier to go downstream than upstream. Not everyone is the same so a complete A-Z is a more compelling alpahabet. The only difference is that the Wii leveraged an air-mouse with motion capabilities from the start whilst the Xbox360 did not. No, that's not what nintendo did. They offered a new way to play games. The only real improvement in the industry this generation. Microsoft picked the wrong horse from the start. But this isn't a horse race and you can change your bet before the race is over. They thought multimedia would be more compelling, they were wrong and now they adapt. However, here is where the asynchronous capabilities come into play. Microsoft can leverage their dominance of the #1 Game platform in the world (PC) to make up for their slow start in this field. They can and will respond to the Wii. Heres some examples - The Sims - 100million sales, MMORPGs, Strategy games, online flash games, adventure games, puzzle games, first person shooters/RPG games that come from the PC and only do PC/Xbox360.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I decided to just paste one of Malstrom's argument as a suggestion, seeing as how I agree with this opinion. In this portion of the article, Malstrom gives three outcomes as to what the incumbents' console strategy (used by Sony and Microsoft) is and how the incumbents will react when the disrupter (Nintendo) uses a different strategy. I am showing this segment due to the fact that it relates to the topic of what will happen if Sony and MS decided to imitate Ninty in the controller aspect. If MS tries to make a Wii remote knockoff, they will prolly lack the motivation necessary to go any farther. Sure, a game or two will support it, but they won't have the motivation Nintendo has to push this kind of innovation into the users hand. Microsoft just doesn't have the fight in them to go that far because they have already invested a lot of time forming their image. Also, another part of Malstrom's argument to back up the argument as to why Sony and MS can't imitate the Wii remote:

Speculation on their motivations. Read above.

A reader says, “The incumbent can simply copy the innovation and stop the disruptor.”

Ahh, but reader, when the incumbent brings the innovation to its market, it never works the way the incumbent plans it.

”Of course, it is worse than this. Not only does an incumbent try to bring the innovation to its existing customers, it typically tries to bring it to its best existing customers. Ironically, these customers value the new attributes of the disruptive innovation the least.”

-Clayton Christensen, “Seeing What’s Next”. Page 50
This explains why die-hard Xbox fans are the most vocal against a Microsoft Wii-mote knock-off.

Not only will imitation piss of the audience they already have, but it will give credence to Nintendo for having the right strategy all along. 


 


 Squilliam, you should really read the article, it's extremely enlightening (but very, VERY long). And I'm going to make comments on your comments up there... 

 On a side-note... How many of us thinks that this is it. This is how far gaming can go. The controls we have now are perfect, there is no room for improvement?

Is there anyone other than me that is really interested to see where the next level will take us?


We have a long way to go, I remember hating consoles. I felt that the difficulty was the damn interface and the game felt easy and the challenge was making the damn controller work for me. I actually find that the subtle improvements the developers have made over the years, made the interface tolerable and somewhat enjoyable. It removed enough of the step in the learning curve for me to get on it.

For motion controls? There are some obvious ones, such as gestures like where you hold your controller not just how hard and in what direction you swing it. You'd need a camera but it can be done. You could also have tracking for both the left and right halves of the controller. For example if you hold two weapons in a FPS, you have to aim with both hands.

 I would also like the controllers to become smaller and fit inside your fist for easier pointing instead of having a slight wrist movement multiplied over a length of controller like the Wiimote.



Tease.

Around the Network
Sky Render said:
Has anybody else noticed lately that many of the pro-Microsoft posters around here have spontaneously changed their tune about motion-sensing controllers, incidentally? Even just a month ago, most of what you saw was scoffing at them, and all of a sudden, the position has totally reversed with no impetus save that MS is rumored to have one in development. Quite suspicious behavior, that... Most people don't spontaneously change their position on something the moment they hear that the company who makes their console of choice is going to be making the product they were scorning before too...

I supported it all along. I would say that the ones who hated it are in their "Denial" stage so they are quiet and the ones that wouldn't mind it or like it are happy or ok with it.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
Sky Render said:
Has anybody else noticed lately that many of the pro-Microsoft posters around here have spontaneously changed their tune about motion-sensing controllers, incidentally? Even just a month ago, most of what you saw was scoffing at them, and all of a sudden, the position has totally reversed with no impetus save that MS is rumored to have one in development. Quite suspicious behavior, that... Most people don't spontaneously change their position on something the moment they hear that the company who makes their console of choice is going to be making the product they were scorning before too...

I supported it all along. I would say that the ones who hated it are in their "Denial" stage so they are quiet and the ones that wouldn't mind it or like it are happy or ok with it.

In that Xbox 360 thread, I was saying that Gaming company releases the rumor and deny it until the last minute, this is nothing new in the Gaming industry(like PS3's Bioshock recently). It is because they may need a chance to cancel the failure product or testing the response from the public.  People will accept the trend eventually. Like I a said it before, Wiimote like controller will become more common due to its nature that tend to toward natural control. Wiimote is not perfect, it needs some buttons redesigned or something else. Wiimote was a 3 years old technology, still it is better than Sony & M$, that's why they are going to develop motion-sensing technology, because it is definitely more percise than Ninty's one. That's why need Wiimote to be evolved again too.

 



Poor PS3 Sales Means Smaller Losses

"Actually, because the number of units sold was not as high as we hoped, the loss was better than our original expectation," Quotes from Sony’s CFO Nobuyuki Oneda.

macross said:
Squilliam said:
Sky Render said:
Has anybody else noticed lately that many of the pro-Microsoft posters around here have spontaneously changed their tune about motion-sensing controllers, incidentally? Even just a month ago, most of what you saw was scoffing at them, and all of a sudden, the position has totally reversed with no impetus save that MS is rumored to have one in development. Quite suspicious behavior, that... Most people don't spontaneously change their position on something the moment they hear that the company who makes their console of choice is going to be making the product they were scorning before too...

I supported it all along. I would say that the ones who hated it are in their "Denial" stage so they are quiet and the ones that wouldn't mind it or like it are happy or ok with it.

In that Xbox 360 thread, I was saying that Gaming company releases the rumor and deny it until the last minute, this is nothing new in the Gaming industry(like PS3's Bioshock recently). It is because they may need a chance to cancel the failure product or testing the response from the public.  People will accept the trend eventually. Like I a said it before, Wiimote like controller will become more common due to its nature that tend to toward natural control. Wiimote is not perfect, it needs some buttons redesigned or something else. Wiimote was a 3 years old technology, still it is better than Sony & M$, that's why they are going to develop motion-sensing technology, because it is definitely more percise than Ninty's one. That's why need Wiimote to be evolved again too.

 

Source?

 



The rEVOLution is not being televised

I hope it's more a sign of the video game market getting more diverse. I don't want Sony and Microsoft to copy the Wii-mote. If I want a wii-mote i'll buy a Wii. What some people don't seem to accept is that not everyone loves the Wii-mote and believes that every game should use that sort of control scheme. Same way that a lot of people would love to wii-mote everything. Why can't we have a market sector that's nintendo motion controls and Sony/Microsoft control pad. Surely with the increase in market size it's possible to make a profit off both ways.

Personally I hope the PS4 is more powerful, has more multimedia functions (dvr?) built in and has a faster blu-ray drive so we don't need installs. For someone like me the PS3 is incredible value for money for what it does.

I suppose eventually motion type controls are going to be the future, but I don't see the Wii-mote being good enough yet so I don't want to see a copy.



Yes

Around the Network
Viper1 said:
macross said:
Squilliam said:
Sky Render said:
Has anybody else noticed lately that many of the pro-Microsoft posters around here have spontaneously changed their tune about motion-sensing controllers, incidentally? Even just a month ago, most of what you saw was scoffing at them, and all of a sudden, the position has totally reversed with no impetus save that MS is rumored to have one in development. Quite suspicious behavior, that... Most people don't spontaneously change their position on something the moment they hear that the company who makes their console of choice is going to be making the product they were scorning before too...

I supported it all along. I would say that the ones who hated it are in their "Denial" stage so they are quiet and the ones that wouldn't mind it or like it are happy or ok with it.

In that Xbox 360 thread, I was saying that Gaming company releases the rumor and deny it until the last minute, this is nothing new in the Gaming industry(like PS3's Bioshock recently). It is because they may need a chance to cancel the failure product or testing the response from the public. People will accept the trend eventually. Like I a said it before, Wiimote like controller will become more common due to its nature that tend to toward natural control. Wiimote is not perfect, it needs some buttons redesigned or something else. Wiimote was a 3 years old technology, still it is better than Sony & M$, that's why they are going to develop motion-sensing technology, because it is definitely more percise than Ninty's one. That's why need Wiimote to be evolved again too.

 

Source?

 


Common sense, like I said it before technology evolved, Wiimote is a 3 years old stuff, the technology itself is way more(older) than that, everyone keep saying that Wiimote is not percise enough, you know why? Because it was an old techonology(in the technology field), it is like Moore's law, it is like the leap between the old phone & the iphone, it is like the graphical leap between the phone, console and any other things else. People recognized this "old technology" because of Nintendo and it's already 3 years old. Who knows what is the latest technology? Because of the LTTP, Sony & M$ have extra time to search & develop better technology.

@Sony already claimed that they were going to have DVR for PS3 when it launch at the time of 2006, however it delay again until March 2008 and it is called PlayTV, however it delay once more time again to Septemper 2008. And it is not Wiimote everything, it is "Wiimote like" everything, it will be like keyboard & mouse, people will get used to it. FYI, Asus just released Eee Stick for the computer, wiimote like technology is not perfect, it need to have button redesign and many other things else to be polished again. Remember that Atari Jotstick to the recent gamepad? Gamepad itself can't be evolved anymore, that's why Sony add Sixaxis to its control, however it failed. Other than that, if Sony or Microsoft is not going to develop the Wiimote like device for better graphic & physics console, who gonna do it? It can't be just Nintendo again. Our next genaration will going to accept it all, maybe it is still not our time...yet. And I am still looking toward Minority's like technology.



Poor PS3 Sales Means Smaller Losses

"Actually, because the number of units sold was not as high as we hoped, the loss was better than our original expectation," Quotes from Sony’s CFO Nobuyuki Oneda.