By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - Greenpace attacks consoles!

PS360ForTheWin said:
Sqrl said:
PS360ForTheWin said:
Specifics, okay, heres a quote from Scientists, happy now -

We are not saying that the Earth's temperature is just going to rise. In general, as energy is added to a system, the fluctuations in the system increase. So, we expect more storms, more droughts, more wildfires, more floods, more fluctuations of all kinds. What we are saying is that weather conditions will become more volatile due to the impact of humans.

-- S. Mukherjee & D. Brouse (2004)

This is directly contradicted by the article I will now post for the THIRD TIME in this thread.

Actually read it this time:

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/hurricane-expert-reassesses-climate-link/index.html?hp


am im going to have to play she said, he said all day with you, id rather not, as its pointless and boring, the fact is more scientists agree with me than with you ok.


 Its not an issue of he said she said, if you read up on your quoting you will find the model they used for that prediction was Mr Emanuel's model.  Its a matter of your quote being based on information proven false.  

Again with the consensus thing, if your argument hinges on that then you should stop now, if you think you have merit to your argument you wouldn't need such crutches. 



To Each Man, Responsibility
Around the Network
PS360ForTheWin said:
Sqrl said:
PS360ForTheWin said:
Sqrl said:

No your comment was perfectly in context. If you intended to point out those scientists then you could have done so directly. For instance:

Scientists like Climatologies Kerry Emanuel of MIT who previously had previously said GW would be the cause of horrible natural disasters based on his climate models and recently rescinded that position?

But you chose to site groups that are by their nature bound to political agendas and ideas and whom are rife with reasons to only site those who agree with them. You brought that unneccessary layer into the discussion, what was the point if not to site them?

Wikipedia, is a great source of information and you can make it sound like I disagree with everything there if you like but the simple fact is that much of what is there is correct and only a handful of it are things I've found reason to disagree with.

Are you planning to site specifics as I have done? Truly this debate is one-sided at the moment, you've asked me and others in several posts to take the words of the unspecified scientists and unspecified polticians, etc.. and I've responded with specifics. If you have nothing to site then state so and move on.

 


Wikipedia is specific, and if you agree with the article, then why do you say global warming is a myth, you have just contradicted yourself.


Please site for me where I said global warming is a myth. Are you unable to read what I've written? Start from the top and read what I've said rather than skipping lines and assuming you know what I'm going to say. You have completely failed to comprehend a single thing I've said as evidenced by this completely ignorant comment.

Additionally you've just claimed that by citing an encyclopedia you were being specific....I honestly don't know how to respond to that...it is a fairly insane position to take.

you posted a load of stuff saying gloabal warming isnt happening.

 

Holy generalizations batman.

Actually read and comperehend what is said, the things I posted never attempted to debunk GW, it was about AGW.  These are important distinctions that must be made in the course of intelligent debate and you honestly should understand them.

Again I apologise if I'm coming off as condescending because I honestly have no intention to attempt to muscle you out of a debate but you really need to carefully read what is said. 

 



To Each Man, Responsibility
PS360ForTheWin said:
Sqrl said:
PS360ForTheWin said:
Specifics, okay, heres a quote from Scientists, happy now -

We are not saying that the Earth's temperature is just going to rise. In general, as energy is added to a system, the fluctuations in the system increase. So, we expect more storms, more droughts, more wildfires, more floods, more fluctuations of all kinds. What we are saying is that weather conditions will become more volatile due to the impact of humans.

-- S. Mukherjee & D. Brouse (2004)

This is directly contradicted by the article I will now post for the THIRD TIME in this thread.

Actually read it this time:

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/hurricane-expert-reassesses-climate-link/index.html?hp


 am im going to have to play she said, he said all day with you, id rather not, as its pointless and boring, the fact is more scientists agree with me than with you ok.


Excellent, someone who doesn't understand the fundimentals of the scientific method ... Surpsingly enough they're a close minded supporter of Global Warming



Im getting thoroughly bored with this know, none of you are going to change my mind and clearly you arent interested in taking my opinion seriously so ive had enough okay, im still positive that Global Warming and Anthropogenic Global Warming are happening, so deal with it, im know past the point of caring about the opinions of the condescending people on this thread.



Bust out the popcorn, this is very entertaining to read.



Around the Network
PS360ForTheWin said:
Im getting thoroughly bored with this know, none of you are going to change my mind and clearly you arent interested in taking my opinion seriously so ive had enough okay, im still positive that Global Warming and Anthropogenic Global Warming are happening, so deal with it, im know past the point of caring about the opinions of the condescending people on this thread.

You don't have to participate, but you are incorrect if you think I've avoided giving weight to your position. The problem is you are addressing my arguments from a position that is ignorant of what I've actually stated.

You are free to believe whatever you like, I have no desire to convince every man woman and child, only those who are interested to learn the facts as I am. I again apologize if I came across as condescending, I shouldn't have allowed my frustration with you to influence my responses.



To Each Man, Responsibility
When I launched the TalkClimateChange forums last year, I was initially worried as to where I would find people who didn’t believe in global warming. I had planned to create a furious debate, but in my experience global warming was such a universally accepted issue that I expected to have to dredge the slums of the internet in order to find a couple of deniers who could keep the argument thriving.

The first few days were slow going, but following a brief write-up of my site by Junk Science I was swamped by climate skeptics who did a good job of frightening off the few brave Greens who slogged out the debate with. Whilst there was a lot of rubbish written, the truth was that they didn’t so much frighten the Greens away - they comprehensively demolished them with a more in depth understanding of the science, cleverly thought out arguments, and some very smart answers. If you want to learn about the physics of convection currents, gas chromatography, or any number of climate science topics then read some of the early debates on TalkClimateChange. I didn’t believe a word of it, but I had to admit that these guys were good.

In the following months the situation hardly changed. As the forum continued to grow, as the blog began to catch traffic, and as I continued to try and recruit green members I continued to be disappointed with the debate. In short, and I am sorry to say it, anti-greens (Reds, as we call them) appear to be more willing to comment, more structured, more able to quote peer reviewed research, more apparently rational and apparently wider read and better informed.

And it’s not just TalkClimateChange. Since we re-launched the forums on Green Options and promoted the “Live Debate“ on Nuclear Power, the pro-nuclear crowd have outclassed the few brave souls that have attempted to take them on (with the exception of our own Matt from TalkClimateChange). So how can this be? Where are all these bright Green champions, and why have I failed to recruit them into the debate? Either it’s down to poor online marketing skills, or there is something else missing. I’ve considered a range of theories as to the problem, none of which seem to fit - such as:

Greens are less educated? Nope.
Greens have less time? Nope.
Greens are a little reticent? Nope.
Greens are less intelligent? Definitely nope.
Greens are less passionate? Absolutely nope.]
Greens have less at stake? Clearly not.

The only feasible explanation that I can come up with so far is that perhaps Greens are less invested in the status quo, and therefore less motivated to protect it? The other possibility is that we are all completely wrong and we’re deluded - please tell me this isn’t so. So I am hoping that La Marguerite, with its insightful host and enlightened readership may be able to help shed some light on this peculiar phenomenon?

 

Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

1. Whenever possible there must be independent confirmation of the “facts”

2. Encourage substantive debate on the “evidence” by knowledgable proponents of all points of view.

3. Arguments from authority carry little weight as “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that there are no authorities; at most; there are “experts”.

4. Spin a variety of hypotheses. If there’s something to be explained, think of all the different ways in which it could be explained. Then think of tests by which you might systematically disprove each. The ones that survive are the ones to do in depth study on.

5.Do not become attached to any hypothesis just because it’s yours. Find reasons for rejecting all, including your own, hypothesis.

6. Quantify. If whatever you are explaining has a measure, quantify it so that measurement is more possible. Vague hypothesis, or those difficult to quantify will be the most difficult to prove or disprove. Ie: There is a Sasquatch.

7. If there is a chain argument, then each and every link must work, including the premise.

8. Use Occam’s Razor; which is to choose the hypothesis that explains the data in the simplest terms.

9. Ask: is the Hypothesis testable and falsifiable. Hypothesis that are not testable are not worth much. Could you duplicate accurately, at least theoretically, the hypothesis?



Sqrl said:
PS360ForTheWin said:
Im getting thoroughly bored with this know, none of you are going to change my mind and clearly you arent interested in taking my opinion seriously so ive had enough okay, im still positive that Global Warming and Anthropogenic Global Warming are happening, so deal with it, im know past the point of caring about the opinions of the condescending people on this thread.

You don't have to participate, but you are incorrect if you think I've avoided given weight to your position. The problem is you are addressing my arguments from a position that is ignorant of what I've actually stated.

You are free to believe whatever you like, I have no desire to convince every man woman and child, only those who are interested to learn the facts as I am. I again apologize if I came across as condescending, I shouldn't have allowed my frustration with you to influence my responses.

 

thats not at all condecending, nor is it an example of you saying your opinion is better than mine purely because your arrogant enough to think youre more intelligent than i am.

 

Sarcasm, i assume you understand. 



HappySqurriel said:
When I launched the TalkClimateChange forums last year, I was initially worried as to where I would find people who didn’t believe in global warming. I had planned to create a furious debate, but in my experience global warming was such a universally accepted issue that I expected to have to dredge the slums of the internet in order to find a couple of deniers who could keep the argument thriving.

The first few days were slow going, but following a brief write-up of my site by Junk Science I was swamped by climate skeptics who did a good job of frightening off the few brave Greens who slogged out the debate with. Whilst there was a lot of rubbish written, the truth was that they didn’t so much frighten the Greens away - they comprehensively demolished them with a more in depth understanding of the science, cleverly thought out arguments, and some very smart answers. If you want to learn about the physics of convection currents, gas chromatography, or any number of climate science topics then read some of the early debates on TalkClimateChange. I didn’t believe a word of it, but I had to admit that these guys were good.

In the following months the situation hardly changed. As the forum continued to grow, as the blog began to catch traffic, and as I continued to try and recruit green members I continued to be disappointed with the debate. In short, and I am sorry to say it, anti-greens (Reds, as we call them) appear to be more willing to comment, more structured, more able to quote peer reviewed research, more apparently rational and apparently wider read and better informed.

And it’s not just TalkClimateChange. Since we re-launched the forums on Green Options and promoted the “Live Debate“ on Nuclear Power, the pro-nuclear crowd have outclassed the few brave souls that have attempted to take them on (with the exception of our own Matt from TalkClimateChange). So how can this be? Where are all these bright Green champions, and why have I failed to recruit them into the debate? Either it’s down to poor online marketing skills, or there is something else missing. I’ve considered a range of theories as to the problem, none of which seem to fit - such as:

Greens are less educated? Nope.
Greens have less time? Nope.
Greens are a little reticent? Nope.
Greens are less intelligent? Definitely nope.
Greens are less passionate? Absolutely nope.]
Greens have less at stake? Clearly not.

The only feasible explanation that I can come up with so far is that perhaps Greens are less invested in the status quo, and therefore less motivated to protect it? The other possibility is that we are all completely wrong and we’re deluded - please tell me this isn’t so. So I am hoping that La Marguerite, with its insightful host and enlightened readership may be able to help shed some light on this peculiar phenomenon?

 

Carl Sagan
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

1. Whenever possible there must be independent confirmation of the “facts”

2. Encourage substantive debate on the “evidence” by knowledgable proponents of all points of view.

3. Arguments from authority carry little weight as “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that there are no authorities; at most; there are “experts”.

4. Spin a variety of hypotheses. If there’s something to be explained, think of all the different ways in which it could be explained. Then think of tests by which you might systematically disprove each. The ones that survive are the ones to do in depth study on.

5.Do not become attached to any hypothesis just because it’s yours. Find reasons for rejecting all, including your own, hypothesis.

6. Quantify. If whatever you are explaining has a measure, quantify it so that measurement is more possible. Vague hypothesis, or those difficult to quantify will be the most difficult to prove or disprove. Ie: There is a Sasquatch.

7. If there is a chain argument, then each and every link must work, including the premise.

8. Use Occam’s Razor; which is to choose the hypothesis that explains the data in the simplest terms.

9. Ask: is the Hypothesis testable and falsifiable. Hypothesis that are not testable are not worth much. Could you duplicate accurately, at least theoretically, the hypothesis?


stop.



PS360ForTheWin said:
Sqrl said:
PS360ForTheWin said:
Im getting thoroughly bored with this know, none of you are going to change my mind and clearly you arent interested in taking my opinion seriously so ive had enough okay, im still positive that Global Warming and Anthropogenic Global Warming are happening, so deal with it, im know past the point of caring about the opinions of the condescending people on this thread.

You don't have to participate, but you are incorrect if you think I've avoided given weight to your position. The problem is you are addressing my arguments from a position that is ignorant of what I've actually stated.

You are free to believe whatever you like, I have no desire to convince every man woman and child, only those who are interested to learn the facts as I am. I again apologize if I came across as condescending, I shouldn't have allowed my frustration with you to influence my responses.

thats not at all condecending, nor is it an example of you saying your opinion is better than mine purely because your arrogant enough to think youre more intelligent than i am.

 

Sarcasm, i assume you understand.


I don't think I'm neccessarily more intelligent than you, but I do think you have proven unwilling to read and comprehend what is said on multiple posts in this thread even after asked multiple times to re-examine what was said and yet you never once re-addressed any of it. 

An unwillingness to attempt to comprehend something is one and the same as an unwillingness to learn the facts.  My statement was logically sound and it didn't require me to be condescending or assume a greater intelligence.  Your positions and statements in this thread speak loudly of what I was referring.

And if you think playing the sympathy card will get you anywhere simply because I attempt to be a cordial debater then you are sorely mistaken. 



To Each Man, Responsibility