How can a story be too complex?
I mean... i can udnerstand a story not being developed enough early so that everything happens at one time... or pacing problems in a story... or things in a story not being explained...
but i can't see a story just being too complex assuming everything is brought along at a nice speed.
why do you say that? so you already concluded for yourself that I haven't played any of those.. strange..
''Hadouken!''
rocketpig said:
Which is the point of good storytelling. Telling a story involves viewer participation, subtlety, and the ability to allow people their own conclusions. Take Atlus Shrugged for example. You may not agree with Rand and even if you don't, the story is still entertaining and thought-provoking. It challenges most modern thought on politics, government, and individual choice. Most importantly, it gives you these ideas in short bursts with plenty of time in between to sort out your own ideas on the subject. It never stops story advancement to soliloquize the entire philosophy over 100 pages. It encourages the reader to form their own opinions, which is always more enlightening than being spoon-fed a theory explained by someone else. You seem to be under the idea that all philosophy needs to be long and drawn out with great exposition. That's not the case. A clever writer will work the same concepts into a plot through subtlety and overarcing ideas running in the background. Will stupid people miss the underlying concepts of the piece? Probably, but that's not the point and it doesn't mean the storytelling aspect of the piece needs to be thrown in the shitter in favor of preaching to a bunch of game nerds with convoluted, redundant, and contrived dialogue. |
I mentioned in a previous post that you did not answer that it depends what you view MGS as. I view MGS as prioritizing the philosophy and creating the story around the messages simply to make it more entertaining and digestable. As such MGS is like a philosophy textbook with a story.The philosophy should be in depth and mentioning theories just like any philosophy source would.
shio said:
I suggest you play Planescape: Torment, Deus Ex, Fallout 1&2 and Grim Fandango before you say anything like that. |
Have you even played XG? That game craps all over the onnes you mentioned in terms of storytelling. Hell, out of the ones on your list only PC and DE even make a remote attempt at trying to mentally stimulate the player though still not to the mind fuck depth that XG did
| Ajax said: why do you say that? so you already concluded for yourself that I haven't played any of those.. strange.. |
so did you play any of them?
billy07 said:
Have you even played XG? That game craps all over the onnes you mentioned in terms of storytelling. Hell, out of the ones on your list only PC and DE even make a remote attempt at trying to mentally stimulate the player though still not to the mind fuck depth that XG did |
I'm a videogame stories fan, and try to play the best of them (provided I have the means for it). It is by no coincidence that my 2 favorite genres are RPG and Adventure.
I would rate Xenogears' story a 6.5/10 (maybe 7), since I remember it sort of crumbles halfway through, and most characters were uninteresting.
Xenogears was not deep nor complex, it only had a big ass story. MGS2's had complexity, but the story itself was destroyed by it (not a good trade-off if you ask me).
billy07 said:
I mentioned in a previous post that you did not answer that it depends what you view MGS as. I view MGS as prioritizing the philosophy and creating the story around the messages simply to make it more entertaining and digestable. As such MGS is like a philosophy textbook with a story.The philosophy should be in depth and mentioning theories just like any philosophy source would. |
If that's the way you view it, that's fine. I'm not going to tell anyone what they should or should not like (or I would have to start questioning my own weird Night of the Lepus fetish).
Where I get annoyed is when people try to tell me that MGS is quality storytelling when, by any conventional means of judging storytelling across multiple cultures & eras, it is most definitely not.
Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/
bloody hell the game is in a war setting what do they expect, Snake sitting down in the middle of the battle field having coffe with Liquid snake.
yes, Deus Ex and Fallout 1, and if you consider those storylines better than Xenogears', I'm beginning to wonder whether you have actually played Xenogears, and understood anything of it's story..
''Hadouken!''
Complexity is a negative value in story writing. The whole idea is to present your story in as simple a way as possible -- even introductory writing teachers will harp on the concept of less being more.
That said, certain concepts and situations are complex, and explaining them will result in a somewhat complex retelling. However, there exist amazing passages describing very complicated situations with elegance and grace and without themselves getting too complex.
That type of story telling, of course, requires expecting more from the reader (or viewer), a luxury you probably won't be afforded with video games.
i can also add that the game recived a fantastic preview in gamereactors along with little big planet.
MGS4: i simply love this game
little big planet: it seems like it will be unic and almost magical
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