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Forums - General - 2008 Beijing Olympic Games should be boycotted.

NJ5 said:
Profcrab said:
My point is that the Chinese government is only going to care if you stop buying their stuff. Sorry, but that is the only way you really scare the Chinese government. It is really a bad message when you boycott the Olympics yet you still give them money.

I would hope that you would be able to understand an exaggeration for effect like "everything". In the future I will use "multitude" so I don't offend your delicate sense of accuracy.

My overall point is that people seem to want to send a really strong message but don't actually want to inconvenience themselves at all.

Yeah, same reason as why no one ever boycotted oil from Iraq/Iran/Venezuela/etc. (as far as I know).

Iran is one of the biggest oil producers (top five for sure), it has a much worse regime than China, yet I don't see many people boycotting fuel made from Iranian oil.

 


 Boycotts themselves are kinda stupid.  What happens if we boycott China or put economic sanctions on Iran? (Which has been tried but Russia loves their iranian oil.)

I'll tell you what, it sure isn't the guys who have control that are missing meals... and if their country has any good sense of propaganda you can bet all the peoples hate will be directed at "the evil west who deny us food!"

Boycotts only work in places where the people decide the government, or where the government is unstable enough to where there is basically already a fairly strong liberation force going. 



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vaio said:
Profcrab said:
vaio said:
Profcrab said:
vaio said:
JPSandhu said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Moongoddess256 said:
The United States isn't a democracy. Anyone who has taken a political science class knows that. It isn't even supposed to be.

lol, this is where I was trying to mould my argument to, thanks for cutting it short ;)


maybe not supposed to be, but it is


If you know anything about democracy you would know that the US doesn´t fullfill all the requirements for being a democracy.


*sigh* True democracies don't exist. For the purposes of comparison with other countries in the world, yes, we have a democracy. Just because people take political science doesn't mean that they need to bring in the pure concepts.


I am not talking about true democracy just the basic requirements of democracy and the US doesn´t even fullfill all of the basic requirements for a democracy.


And those requirements are?


One of them are that all US citizens should have the right to vote wich they don´t and another is all votes should count which isn´t really always heppening either (Miami when bush got elected and now two states in the run between Obama and Clinton. The later can be discussed but the first one should be obvious that all should have a vote but they don´t.


I do agree that the electoral college should go. Which US citizens cannot vote? Are you refering to prisoners? Which classification of government do you propose that we belong to?  Edit: Also, please provide an example of a democracy by your definition.



Thank god for the disable signatures option.

Kasz216 said:
NJ5 said:
Profcrab said:
My point is that the Chinese government is only going to care if you stop buying their stuff. Sorry, but that is the only way you really scare the Chinese government. It is really a bad message when you boycott the Olympics yet you still give them money.

I would hope that you would be able to understand an exaggeration for effect like "everything". In the future I will use "multitude" so I don't offend your delicate sense of accuracy.

My overall point is that people seem to want to send a really strong message but don't actually want to inconvenience themselves at all.

Yeah, same reason as why no one ever boycotted oil from Iraq/Iran/Venezuela/etc. (as far as I know).

Iran is one of the biggest oil producers (top five for sure), it has a much worse regime than China, yet I don't see many people boycotting fuel made from Iranian oil.

 


Boycotts themselves are kinda stupid. What happens if we boycott China or put economic sanctions on Iran? (Which has been tried but Russia loves their iranian oil.)

I'll tell you what, it sure isn't the guys who have control that are missing meals... and if their country has any good sense of propaganda you can bet all the peoples hate will be directed at "the evil west who deny us food!"

Boycotts only work in places where the people decide the government, or where the government is unstable enough to where there is basically already a fairly strong liberation force going.


I'm not for boycotting China at all, in any respect.  I think capitolism in China has had a stablizing effect and has tied them to us.  This keeps them from ever really wanting to do anything to piss us off. 



Thank god for the disable signatures option.

Kasz216 said:

 Why would people from India and Pakistan be black?  Their middleastern.

As much as I think he's stupid.  Your response is equally stupid.  His point was basically "Where is there a Black person head of a country in which black isn't the dominant majority."


Yes I was in fact completely wrong. Still that said, I don't belive the skin tones are a million miles apart

http://www.javno.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m03/x93135202333537155.jpg

http://whoisbarackobama.name/who-is-barack-obama.jpg

 

 



Yes

ion-storm said:
Kasz216 said:

Why would people from India and Pakistan be black? Their middleastern.

As much as I think he's stupid. Your response is equally stupid. His point was basically "Where is there a Black person head of a country in which black isn't the dominant majority."


Yes I was in fact completely wrong. Still that said, I don't belive the skin tones are a million miles apart

http://www.javno.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m03/x93135202333537155.jpg

http://whoisbarackobama.name/who-is-barack-obama.jpg

 

 


Skin tone is a lot different then race...



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They should of had it in Toronto instead



Bursche said:
Rock_on_2008 said:
konnichiwa said:
hsrob said:
Here i thought this thread was about the Olympics in China......

Name a positive effect that boycotting the Olympics would have?

People will hate China more, don't go there anymore . China lose money of tourism especially Tibetians will lose money to tourism.

People will go to other countries then (Western probably) so China will lose money, Western Countries will gain my....

So far, I don't see any other positive effects..


That sounds good to me boycott China. Western countries make more money through tourism. Besides Great Wall of China. what is there in China? Buddhist Temples? lol.

BTW Chinese are forcing oil prices up.


Uh their culture? Thats what you generally go to see when you visit another country unless your a pompous ass going for the tourist spots which have no indication of the country's culture whatsoever. Anyway, China doesnt have that much tourism as you think. Other Western countries already have so much more because China restricts who comes in and out.

 

And how the hell is china forcing oil prices up?! I believe that would be OPEC and oil companies.


Both China and India are forcing oil prices up due to their high demand  for oil. both countries industries have grown 10 fold in the past 10 years where they become more industrialised. Less oil is left for the rest of the world due to increased demand and consumption in both China and India. Global oil prices are forced up due to limited supply of oil.



@Rock_on_2008: How dare China and India try and expand their economies, it's a damned disgrace.

@Profcrab: good point about boycotts and ELECTED governments.

Let's say we boycott the Olympics, then what? China loses face and a bit of money on tourism which is not exactly a large part of the GDP anyway and then......... China gets bad press in WESTERN newspapers (Chinese papers will say that the west boycotted because they are afraid of China's strength and are racist). In this regard you are playing right into the governments hand and feeding the propaganda machine and promoting ignorant nationalism. The human rights record will be brought into the spotlight for a few days or weeks and then what, business continues as usual? It doesn't make any sense.



kasz216
you might be the face of western apathy to call indians middle-easterns
anyways,it really amazes me to see how the americans just assume that the moral high ground is theirs, in any argument.i mean it is ridiculous, telling a country with 1.3 billion people how to do things. if the people dont like the governance, theyll deal with it(with a revolution if needed).no need for western countries to champion their cause
and i feel that a country with a population as large as that needs some sort of control over the people for functioning properly.well, at the very least china doesnt try to control other countries.
objectively speaking, china is on the right track. working hard now
the human rights can be restored once the country achieves its financial goals



"The accumulated filth of all their sex and murders will foam up about their waist and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"...

 ....and I'll look down and whisper  "no."  

                                                                   - Rorschach

Profcrab said:
vaio said:
Profcrab said:
vaio said:
Profcrab said:
vaio said:
JPSandhu said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Moongoddess256 said:
The United States isn't a democracy. Anyone who has taken a political science class knows that. It isn't even supposed to be.

lol, this is where I was trying to mould my argument to, thanks for cutting it short ;)


maybe not supposed to be, but it is


If you know anything about democracy you would know that the US doesn´t fullfill all the requirements for being a democracy.


*sigh* True democracies don't exist. For the purposes of comparison with other countries in the world, yes, we have a democracy. Just because people take political science doesn't mean that they need to bring in the pure concepts.


I am not talking about true democracy just the basic requirements of democracy and the US doesn´t even fullfill all of the basic requirements for a democracy.


And those requirements are?


One of them are that all US citizens should have the right to vote wich they don´t and another is all votes should count which isn´t really always heppening either (Miami when bush got elected and now two states in the run between Obama and Clinton. The later can be discussed but the first one should be obvious that all should have a vote but they don´t.


I do agree that the electoral college should go. Which US citizens cannot vote? Are you refering to prisoners? Which classification of government do you propose that we belong to?  Edit: Also, please provide an example of a democracy by your definition.


Yes I meant prisoners.

I don´t know what classification your goverment would have some kind of hybrid between democracy and republic but mostly leaning to republic.

There are more then a few European countries that have good examples on a good democracy.



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