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Forums - General - 2008 Beijing Olympic Games should be boycotted.

ion-storm said:
JPSandhu said:
 

Is China a democracy?

Name a country outside of Africa with a black leader with a population of over 100,000. hell even 10, 000

Who was going to help he world if America didn't give a shit. No one because the world was so fuked after the depression and ww2 that they could afford to give help and every country has its motives and intrests.

hell it was the europeans who raped and killed the the natives in the name of their countries in order to colonize and rape the land of its rich l resorces.

Name a country were free speech is cherished so much? I'm not Flag humper or anything, I am a Canadian but i just kinda get pissed off when America is being made fun of for no perticlular reason. people take the US for granted, but when a country gets invaded, when the US isn't doing it whos help do they look for. When a tsumani of earthquake happens they look for the US for aid, but until then it is all death to America and look at those facist pigs or look at the hypocrits. Look at france and the rest of mainland europe they get their asses saved twice and its all hate over their.


Well if you exclude the countries in Africa.... Which I have to say seems a touch unfair.

I shall go for a few black prime ministers since their function in government is essentially that of an American president.. Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica... Would you consider people from India and Pakistan to be black? Several countries have had female presidents/prime ministers....

Don't recall ever saying China was a democracy. How about England? Spain?

So whenever the native Americans were being killed it was Europeans... but whenever they start doing good things these Europeans suddently become Americans? Handy that isn't it?

Free speech? The U.K., Ireland, The Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, France.... The list goes on really. We just don't rant and rave about it because we expect it.

Whenever these things happen they look to the U.N. for help.

You talk like America won the first and second world war on its own.

I'm not saying any other country is innocent of everything they ever did. I'm just saying that America is not some sort of shining beacon of greatness for the rest of the world to look to. Take things into perspective a bit. It's just another country that does good and bad.


 Man my Parents are Indian they ain't black, they're brown.

Spain turned facist after their Civil war, When did england have a civil war? seriously i dont remember, but anyways england is also a strong democracy.  i don't recall callin anyone ver comparing europeans to americans.  NO country loves free speech like the US does,

If america never entered ww2, the germans would have won, same goes for russia in ww2. The americans pay for more then 50% of the UN and are always te leader in all of its operations.

My posts arn't about good and bad they were about proving my point that the US is a Great Democracy, and i think i'v more then proven that, I never said it was the best nor did i say it was the only one. I jus said it was a great democracy



 

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Profcrab said:
kingofwale said:
Profcrab said:
kingofwale said:
konnichiwa said:
hsrob said:
Here i thought this thread was about the Olympics in China......

Name a positive effect that boycotting the Olympics would have?

People will hate China more, don't go there anymore . China lose money of tourism especially Tibetians will lose money to tourism.

People will go to other countries then (Western probably) so China will lose money, Western Countries will gain money....

So far, I don't see any other positive effects..


Hmmm, Tibetian losing money due to "Olympic tourism"?? LOL, you do realize the geographical location of Tibet and those cities which host the Olympics, right?

One positive effect that boycotting Olympics will have?


*putting CHinese's horrible human right record onto the first page news.
*Forces the government to be more accountable to their actions.

Heck, worked on Soviet Union before.


We didn't buy everything under the sun from the Soviet Union. It won't really work on China. The worst thing you could do to China would be to stop buying Chinese made products (fat chance). Everything else is just a token gesture.


first of all... who are "We"? It's not like there is no alterative to cheap Chinese products at Walmart, it's not oil, for god's sake.

 


We is you too. Unless of course you don't play any video games at all or use a computer or drive a car (yes much of the production for the electronic components is done in China). You go through your stuff and see if you don't easily find 5 things that were made in China. If you want to tell me that you don't buy Chinese products all the time, I'm calling bullshit right now. Unless you are typing from the Ozarks and your only connection to the outside world is from a computer that was made 15 or so years ago using a 2400-baud modem, you are a willing consumer of Chinese products.

So are you now going to stop buying Chinese products? Stop buying computers, video game consoles, etc.?


 you said "EVERYTHING", and I disagreed, Clearly you can't go through life without buying anything from China, I don't, but I don't rely on Chinese product like people rely on oil. 


Funny, when did I ever say I'm going to stop buying Chinese product? Trying to halt Chinese  economy and making millions of people out of job is somehow your idea of "sending CHinese government" a message?



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I think we should boycott... the losers who want to mix sports and politics.



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

My point is that the Chinese government is only going to care if you stop buying their stuff. Sorry, but that is the only way you really scare the Chinese government. It is really a bad message when you boycott the Olympics yet you still give them money.

I would hope that you would be able to understand an exaggeration for effect like "everything". In the future I will use "multitude" so I don't offend your delicate sense of accuracy.

My overall point is that people seem to want to send a really strong message but don't actually want to inconvenience themselves at all.



Thank god for the disable signatures option.

Profcrab said:
My point is that the Chinese government is only going to care if you stop buying their stuff. Sorry, but that is the only way you really scare the Chinese government. It is really a bad message when you boycott the Olympics yet you still give them money.

I would hope that you would be able to understand an exaggeration for effect like "everything". In the future I will use "multitude" so I don't offend your delicate sense of accuracy.

My overall point is that people seem to want to send a really strong message but don't actually want to inconvenience themselves at all.

Yeah, same reason as why no one ever boycotted oil from Iraq/Iran/Venezuela/etc. (as far as I know).

Iran is one of the biggest oil producers (top five for sure), it has a much worse regime than China, yet I don't see many people boycotting fuel made from Iranian oil.

 



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Easy to say when your not one of the people who have worked all their lives to compete at the olympics.

Basically you'd be punishing the athletes for the selection comittee being full of bozos.



superchunk said:
@JPSandhu

US has done a lot of good for the world and continues to be the largest foreign aid giver in the entire world.

However, in the same turn US has done a lot of bad to ensure she keeps her dominant presence. WTO, World Bank, etc are all ran by US and all have policies and actions that help ensure US dominance. US is by far the largest seller of weapons worldwide, even to warlords and dictators by large.

Being a true patriot isn't just glorifying US greatness, it is also demanding we change our immoral actions as well.

I don't care how you paint it, Iraq was a horrible decision. The loss of life on both sides and the fact that an average Iraqi is far worse off now than under Saddam proves this.

It would have been smarter, a lot less life loss, and a lot less international backlash if we had just used missiles to destroy the sites we thought were WMD. Basically what Clinton did in Africa to supposed Al-Queda sites.


The world bank is a poor choice.

Nobody has to actually take money from the World Bank.  Yet they do, the biggest complaints on the world bank seem to just be that they actually want money back instead of just giving it away for free. (when no one else is willing to provide money.)



Also, the US helped rebuild Europe after WW2 because of the USSR. They didn't want to leave the USSR weak for Stalin to roll in.



ion-storm said:
JPSandhu said:
ion-storm said:
JPSandhu said:
SamuelRSmith said:
JPSandhu said:
^ what it is. It survived so much. Civil war, slavery, ww1,the depression, ww2, vietnam, cold war and the bush era just recently. And an election soon where they will have the weatern worlds 1st black president.

What a ridiculous statement. Most of the world went through the depression, ww2, and the cold war (which Viet Nam was part of, and the Americans lost). The Bush era (well, the second half) was a result of this so called "great democracy".

A lot of countries have gone through civil war, and survived.

And, really, what difference does the colour of the skin make to the effectiveness of a person's ability to be president. Not to mention the fact that he hasn't even won it yet, so that's not even certain.

 


Did you see what happened in Europe. Countries were turning Facist in the Depression because of the political situation which the US tried to help the rest of the world while dealing with their own stuff at home. After world war 2 countries were turning communist under the iron curtain.

American Civil war was a remarkable story of such a huge countries became unifyed after such a horrible war. As for Obama, the rest of the world would be to racist even think of having a black president, even through all the tension between blacks and whites. Obama grew up in the hood where the most anyone could even think of becoming was drug dealer or in jail.

The USA helped defeat the Germans in the WEST while the russians won it in the EAST. It gives out so much foreign aid, hell im happy the US is in Iraq, saddam was an asshole anyways, atleast the US tried to do something. look noe in burma see how much aid the USA is giving the. do u relize the Most of the UN's funds come from America.

 

all anyone else want to do is bash America, for what trying to make the world a better place, the USA is the leader in disaseter responce teams across the world and after the world takes americas food, warm blankets, it's back to bush is an asshole talk, no blood for oil bullshit, Saddam is out of power and now islamic fundamentalsit came into iraq after USA invaded making iraq the place it is today. so i blame the fundamentalist (who are fake muslims in the 1st place) in iraq for iraqs situation. blood for oil -then why isnt the oil getting cheeper in America if America was taking all of iraqs oil. Who fuked up africa, the europeans, who fuked up asia europeans, One mistake in Iraq and then its like USA is the worst country ever, and seem to forget all the shit they pulled.

 

wow that was way off topic


You do realise other countries like for example CHINA, have become unified after massive wars that make the US civil war look like a skirmish?

The rest of the world would be too racist to think of having a black president? You do realise other countries do have....

Not that i'm saying all the aid after world war two wasn't a good thing... but you do realise America did most of it for not too overly noble reasons? Not saying other countries wouldn't. The UK government also does things similar. But don't try and make out that it was some glorious gift the US handed out because it loved the world.

Oh yes... who created the US? For the most part I blame europeans!!!


Is China a democracy?

Name a country outside of Africa with a black leader with a population of over 100,000. hell even 10, 000

Who was going to help he world if America didn't give a shit. No one because the world was so fuked after the depression and ww2 that they could afford to give help and every country has its motives and intrests.

hell it was the europeans who raped and killed the the natives in the name of their countries in order to colonize and rape the land of its rich l resorces.

Name a country were free speech is cherished so much? I'm not Flag humper or anything, I am a Canadian but i just kinda get pissed off when America is being made fun of for no perticlular reason. people take the US for granted, but when a country gets invaded, when the US isn't doing it whos help do they look for. When a tsumani of earthquake happens they look for the US for aid, but until then it is all death to America and look at those facist pigs or look at the hypocrits. Look at france and the rest of mainland europe they get their asses saved twice and its all hate over their.


Well if you exclude the countries in Africa.... Which I have to say seems a touch unfair.

I shall go for a few black prime ministers since their function in government is essentially that of an American president.. Bahamas, Barbados, Jamaica... Would you consider people from India and Pakistan to be black? Several countries have had female presidents/prime ministers....

Don't recall ever saying China was a democracy. How about England? Spain?

So whenever the native Americans were being killed it was Europeans... but whenever they start doing good things these Europeans suddently become Americans? Handy that isn't it?

Free speech? The U.K., Ireland, The Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, France.... The list goes on really. We just don't rant and rave about it because we expect it.

Whenever these things happen they look to the U.N. for help.

You talk like America won the first and second world war on its own.

I'm not saying any other country is innocent of everything they ever did. I'm just saying that America is not some sort of shining beacon of greatness for the rest of the world to look to. Take things into perspective a bit. It's just another country that does good and bad.


 Why would people from India and Pakistan be black?  Their middleastern.

As much as I think he's stupid.  Your response is equally stupid.  His point was basically "Where is there a Black person head of a country in which black isn't the dominant majority."



Profcrab said:
vaio said:
Profcrab said:
vaio said:
JPSandhu said:
SamuelRSmith said:
Moongoddess256 said:
The United States isn't a democracy. Anyone who has taken a political science class knows that. It isn't even supposed to be.

lol, this is where I was trying to mould my argument to, thanks for cutting it short ;)


maybe not supposed to be, but it is


If you know anything about democracy you would know that the US doesn´t fullfill all the requirements for being a democracy.


*sigh* True democracies don't exist. For the purposes of comparison with other countries in the world, yes, we have a democracy. Just because people take political science doesn't mean that they need to bring in the pure concepts.


I am not talking about true democracy just the basic requirements of democracy and the US doesn´t even fullfill all of the basic requirements for a democracy.


And those requirements are? 


One of them are that all US citizens should have the right to vote wich they don´t and another is all votes should count which isn´t really always heppening either (Miami when bush got elected and now two states in the run between Obama and Clinton. The later can be discussed but the first one should be obvious that all should have a vote but they don´t.



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