Final-Fan said: starcraft said: The thing is, I went on to qualify the subtitle by discussing DMeisterJ's comments throughout the thread. I also specified in the OP that I was talking about the entire thread. At the end of the day, you can reasonably argue that I didn't specify specifically in the thread title that anything in the thread was up for debate. But at the same time, I can reasonably argue that I did specify that I was responding to all of DmeisterJ's comments in the thread. OK, but that part of your OP ("DMeisterJ attempted to change his thread to specify that it referred only to hardware (which as I have shown, is clearly not beginning to end) but not before qualifying software discussion with this comment: / "Ahh... / "360's last stand, software. / "What's next? Revenue? LULZ") seemed to me to be implying that that comment related to the discussion topic of the OP. I guess I was wrong. Sorry.

I'm sorry if I didn't seperate those points properly in the OP.  What I was implying wasn't that the OP had SW comments in it that were removed, its that the OP was originally a broad statement about the Xbox 360's prospects that was modified to refer ONLY to the Xbox 360's HW prospects.

 

Sjeez.

This thread is still rolling on. This is almost "my" biggest thread yet! Almost as big as my "Are you a virgin?" one (Seven pages, 302 replies).

I'm so proud of myself

@ Final-Fan

Thank you for defending me, or the truth for that matter, you really are an awesome human being. And so fair

DMeisterJ said: Sjeez. This thread is still rolling on. This is almost "my" biggest thread yet! Almost as big as my "Are you a virgin?" one (Seven pages, 302 replies). I'm so proud of myself @ Final-Fan Thank you for defending me, or the truth for that matter, you really are an awesome human being. And so fair

The virgin thread doesn't count, it was off-topic

Final is defending something.  The truth.....well.......... 

 

starcraft said: Final-Fan said: starcraft said: Final-Fan said: Probably one of my biggest hangups is this: "DMeisterJ attempted to change his thread to specify that it referred only to hardware ..." Now, does this mean that you do not believe he initially meant the OP to mean this and he tried to restrict it later? Or simply that he was trying to clarify the original meaning, which had always been HW, but was not being responded to as such? As for the bolded part? Call me a cynic, but I'm pretty sure DMeisterJ got caught up in the anti-MS sentiment and made a sweeping criticism of the console in general. I think he then restricted it to hardware after getting hammered on software. But he knows I love him so its ok. So then you are saying that there were SW-related things in his OP which have now been deleted? What were they? Why did you not mention this before when we discussed this? Er, I just had a quick scan over my OP and posts, but I couldn't see (and have no recollection of) myself saying he had software in his OP? What I have said is that the OP implied the Xbox 360 was dying in general and it was only AFTER getting beaten down on SW that DMeisterJ changed it to specify HW.

Then you didn't. I simply believe that his OP as it stands now (with nothing incriminating having been deleted) is clearly all about HW and not at all about SW. So your previous post would (IMO) need to refer to (nonexistent) deleted SW-related material to be correct.

The post in question is as follows:
GTA IV launched in America and Europe this week, and the American numbers are in.
PS3 has outsold the 360 by a modes 26k units.
While that isn't a lot, America is 360's biggest market...
If GTA IV, with 360's Exclusive Episodic Content didn't push sales above PS3 this week, what will?
Is GTA IV the beginning of the end for the 360 in America?
You decide.
My comment on this area from earlier in the thread:
If you look carefully ... it's clear that, although he uses GTA (SW) as a milestone, the subject of his question is HW. The numbers he cites are HW. The numbers he talks about are HW. Why would it now follow that the numbers he is asking a question about would not be HW?

[edit: "the OP was originally a broad statement about the Xbox 360's prospects that was modified to refer ONLY to the Xbox 360's HW prospects."

What was modified from the original OP?! The notes on top are simple clarification; the OP's actual text as it stands now is solely about HW.]

DMeisterJ is a lot more reasonable than he used to be, so I'd bet you can find what you're looking for somewhere. Not here. Especially since his two responses to Viper1 reveal that he was exclusively interested in HW discussion and specifically (if derisively) ceded the SW point. This was well before the thread got out of hand so I think you would be hard pressed to call that part of the damage control.

Final-Fan said: Then you didn't. I simply believe that his OP as it stands now (with nothing incriminating having been deleted) is clearly all about HW and not at all about SW. So your previous post would (IMO) need to refer to (nonexistent) deleted SW-related material to be correct. The post in question is as follows: GTA IV launched in America and Europe this week, and the American numbers are in. PS3 has outsold the 360 by a modes 26k units. While that isn't a lot, America is 360's biggest market... If GTA IV, with 360's Exclusive Episodic Content didn't push sales above PS3 this week, what will? Is GTA IV the beginning of the end for the 360 in America? You decide. My comment on this area from earlier in the thread: If you look carefully ... it's clear that, although he uses GTA (SW) as a milestone, the subject of his question is HW. The numbers he cites are HW. The numbers he talks about are HW. Why would it now follow that the numbers he is asking a question about would not be HW? DMeisterJ is a lot more reasonable than he used to be, so I'd bet you can find what you're looking for somewhere. Not here. Especially since his two responses to Viper1 reveal that he was exclusively interested in HW discussion and specifically (if derisively) ceded the SW point. This was well before the thread got out of hand so I think you would be hard pressed to call that part of the damage control.

It is a fair enough belief to hold.  But I did say that it was a response to his thread in my op.  The thread covered everything from revenue to software.

 

To doublecheck:  you are now acknowledging it is fair to say that the OP itself is and always was purely about HW and not (as previously claimed) SW or "the 360 generally" (i.e. HW+SW).  Correct?

Final-Fan said: To doublecheck: you are now acknowledging it is fair to say that the OP itself is and always was purely about HW and not (as previously claimed) SW or "the 360 generally" (i.e. HW+SW). Correct?

At the end of the day it will always come down to our interpretations of DMeisterJ's intentions, and your interpretation will always be just as valid as mine.

But you realize that this thread was never just about DMeisterJ's thread OP, but the thread in it's entirety? 

 

Well, you only referred to two posts, both by DMJ, and it had seemed to me that you had implied that the second was an elaboration of points on the OP. But that was incorrect and I realize it now.

starcraft said: shams said: In general, I completely agree with Starcraft. The 360 is FAR from finished - people keep forgetting this IS MS. The only reason the XBOX died, is because they killed it off prematurely to push people to the 360. MS have been *very* quiet recently, and that means they are up to something. All they have to do is completely fix the RRoD issues, drop the price in the US (and Australia :P) - and they will have a fantastic rest-of-the-year. I'm almost certain this generation will end with a "close-to" 50% marketshare each between the 360/PS3 (HD marketshare that is). If your happy with a refurbished Xbox 360 (albeit with a 1 year replacement warranty), Game is selling them for $499 bundled with GTAIV (pro version). http://palgn.com.au/article.php?title=Australian+Gaming+Bargains+-+08%2F05%2F08&id=11359&sid=06eca55470e75e8fe81973170c019530

 

Way too much. Our dollar is close to hitting parity with the US, and in general our taxes are LOWER. The low US $ has been one of the best things to ever happen to MS.

I'll spend $299AU on a 360 - or $399 if its a Pro + GTA. Even though what I have seen of the game to date, has only put me off it.

Knowing they DEFINITELY have something around the corner, makes it real hard to commit to buying a 360 *now*.

(its also bad timing for me, but that is another story) 

 

I really don't get all this "downfall of the 360" crap. VGChartz is supposed to be a place where people have logical, intelligent discussions about the consoles without all the corporate spin, right?

How in any way is the PS3 going to cause the downfall of the 360? The 360 has already sold well enough that it can be called a successful console. There are still plenty of games slated for release on the 360 over the next 2 years at least. It's getting good numbers year over year. It has good momentum going and a very strong following in NA. Sony's declaration of the numbers in Europe have now shown to be unsubstantiated and definitely questionable. I could go on and on.

PS3 fans are getting really cocky. The PS3 is hitting the stride it should have had at launch, except its launch was a complete failure. Therefore, the initial demand for the console that it should have had last year is just finally starting to happen (slowly). PS3 wanks seem to think that this means it will be an unstoppable steam rolling dynamo from here until the next gen. First of all, I would not take it for granted that this is the case. The world has already shown Sony that they will not just buy anything that has Playstation in the name unless there are games to back it up. Sony is going to have to do more than just constantly listing games that are coming out and then delaying them. And the PS3 is eventually not going to be able to stand on the BluRay leg alone, especially now that there have been some reports popping up about problems with its BluRay laser going bad. Look it up on Kotaku.com and follow the links.

And what happens if/when PS3 does pass up the 360 and Wii. Do all other existing consoles just explode? Do PS3 owners win some kind of prize? Even if you look at the CURRENT user base of the 360, no developer is going to give it the snub on titles with that kind of numbers, so I don't think any 360 fans have to worry about game support. The TRULY big story here is the story of how much ground MS has gained on Sony this gen. Last gen was Sony's world and everyone else was just living in it. This gen, Sony is having to actually compete and it's driving all the fanboys nuts.