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Forums - Sales - Wii helps PS3?

zaphodile said:

Bodhesatva said:


Unless you can honestly answer: "Yes, I think last generation's games were superlatively more fun than all the generations that came before it," this should answer the question -- no, better graphics don't make games more fun.


I can honestly say that. Most people prefer HL1 before HL2 for example, but that is because HL1 was much better in relation to all the other games that were out then. HL2 is actually the better game in every way.

The thing is, people get nostalgic. I, for instance, still think Transport Tycoon Deluxe and Red Alert are among the best games ever made, because I was like 10 years old when I played them.

Most good games out today are much better then the good games of yesterday, but people who have

experienced several generations can't see this, because they still measure old games by old standards.

I have to disagree with this. I really didn't like Half-life 2. It just wasn't enjoyable. Nothing to do with nostalgia, or "better in relation" or anything. The storyline for HL2 was crap, the guns felt weak, too much riding in some stupid hovercart, the gravity gun was a useless gimmick to show off the physics engine with the bouncy barrels. The puzzles were crap, there wasn't the same atmosphere.

Overall the game was not "better in every way" than Half-Life, but worse in every way (except graphics). I only finished HL2 once but I finished Half-life about 6 or 7 times, the game was that good. 

 



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Bodhesatva said:


On the other hand, one thing you did not mention was 3rd party support. Historically, the systems that go into the generation with the heaviest 3rd party support tend to do well -- in fact, they (almost?) always win. In this case, that's not happening. But I do think it provides Sony with some breathing room: it's clear that developer support is already shifting dramatically away from the Playstation 3 and towards the Wii, but it's not as if major 3rd party titles such as Final Fantasy XIII and MGS4 were simply canceled, with the millions of dollars already spent wasted. The first batch of major third party titles is still planned for the system, and this provides Sony with some extra breathing room that, historically, consoles have not had when their dominance was wavering. For example, the N64 started out with poor 3rd party support from the very beginning (for good reason, I might add).

 

Except that the PS3 is getting the LEAST third party support of the three consoles

 



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Bodhesatva said:

I have an honest question that I ask whenever these "graphics matter" threads come up.

Do you honestly feel that the PS2 era actually saw a better group of games than, say, the SNES era? The NES era? The N64/PS1 era? Do you really feel you were actually having more fun last generation than you were, say, 10 years ago? 15? For my own sake, my answer is: absolutely not. In fact, if anything, I might say the opposite.

Unless you can honestly answer: "Yes, I think last generation's games were superlatively more fun than all the generations that came before it," this should answer the question -- no, better graphics don't make games more fun.

Or, you can take a different approach to the topic. If you look at "Top 100 Video Games ever made" lists, (or top 10, or what have you) the bests games are generally spread out fairly evenly amongst the generations: there are often about as many NES games as there are Genesis/SNES games as there PS1/N64 games as there PS2/GC/Xbox games. It's obviously never going to be divided perfectly, but you'll find a healthy showing from all the generations. This is powerful evidence that graphics don't matter much, if at all.

Another simple, easy question: if games haven't gotten much more fun -- again, if they have at all -- but graphics are now hundreds of times more complex than they were 20 years ago, does that suggest graphics play an important role in the fun factor?

 


I think it is subjective.

Games like Operation Wolf and Dynamite Duke, I prefer today's FPS with better gfx.

Games like Worms and Lemmings, I rather they kept it in 2D.

As for Mario.... I enjoy SMB1, SMB2, SMW and M64. I think M64 is the best.

Contra is better in 2D. Mabbe thats why Metal Slug made it.

Imagine games like Puzzle bobble in 3D.... I will puke playing it! lol!

 



Borkachev said:
I largely agree with this post, and I think it's both well argued and worded. I do have a few points to make, however. While I think you're absolutely right that there are millions of Sony fans still unsure if they want to continue on the Playstation bandwagon or not, I think it's unfair to state (or imply) that the full 100 million remaining buyers would fall into this category. I would suspect a healthy portion -- at least half -- buy whatever their friends seem to be playing, whatever has the most games available, or whatever has some random non-marquee title they want (tied to simply having more games. Example: I'd bet Guitar Hero sold more PS2s than any Sony-branded franchise besides Gran Turismo).
This is true. I'm not necessarily saying everyone who bought a PS2 last generation is a die-hard Sony fan - just that the fact that they did so makes them much more likely to buy a PS3 this generation. For instance, most of those PS2 owners might have bought in because their friends were doing it, because they wanted to play Guitar Hero, or for any of the reasons you mentioned. But once they were owners, they also probably went out and bought games like God of War and Metal Gear Solid 3 - games they might not have bought a PS2 for, but since they already had one and they'd heard good things, they snatched them up. And now Sony's got them. Not through any great brand loyalty, but simply because these people will want to follow the series they enjoy into the next generation. Honestly, Gran Turismo probably isn't any better than Forza or Project Gotham Racing, and MGS might not be better than Syphon Filter - but people are going to stick with those series anyway because they've enjoyed them first-hand. They don't have to go out on a limb and take some reviewer's word for it - they already know they're good. And that simple effect, "familiarity," is in my opinion more important to a console's success than all the innovation, pricing advantages, and good marketing in the world. Within limits, of course. There's a price people won't go beyond even for the comfort of familiarity, and I think $600 is pretty much dead on.

And I agree with this, too. Just want to emphasize: wasn't implying there weren't a good deal of people who are loyal to Sony (or are simply familiar with Sony, which you described perfectly and, I suspect, is a more plentiful lot than that which we commonly refer to as "fanboys"). 



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