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Forums - Gaming - Immersion vs. Interaction: conflicting gamer tastes

trestres said:
Million said:
I don't see why you can't aim for both , in theory you got to have both to some extent to make a decent game ( Immersion without interaction would be a movie and interaction without immersion would be Pong).

I think Sony and MS are capable of achieving both to a greater extent than Nintendo , on the interaction front I think Nintendo is champion because they've obviously focoused more of their resources towards the interactivity apporach at the cost of less immersion , it paid off.

Sony more so than MS has also put [some] effort into interactivity eye toy to cite an example , MS is coming out with their own version of the Wii mote.

I think Sony and MS have got the immersion side of things sorted , they can only do it better . Once they implement their respective interactive technologies well then I think they'll have a good balance of the two.

However I don't think the Wii's hardware will allow it to offer an immersive experience , I don't think it's user base particularly cares , so there's no love lost their. This might present a problem to Nintendo however who probably want to dominate all segments of the console market.

 

Well, MP3, Zelda:TP, RE4 all offered me an incredible immersive experience. But oh wait, yeah they are games for PS3, damn my PS3 is white and has a blue light, slim model?

 

Yeah looks like 5 million people who bought Zelda, for example, really didn't care about the experience they got.

 


 

Of course the Wii can offer a level of immersion , even the n64 can but it's likely than if being immersed into a game was your top priority then you'd need high quality sound, high definition graphics and amazing visuals (the Wii can't offer that) . I don't understand why Nintendo supporters want the Wii to be good at everything when it cleary isn't.

On the immersivness front the Wii just can't offer the same as the PS3 and 360. the number of people who bought those titles is irelevant as you have no statistical information as to why they did.

Now compare the immserivness of your line up to Uncharted , COD4 , GoW2 , MGS4 and then you understand my point. these game's offer a movie like experience.

 i never thought the day would come when I would compare Wii visuals to that of a HD console , but oh well...

 

 

VS

 




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two very different screen shots.

however the immersion between both and interactivity is about the same, just one is slightly better graphics.


personally in MY experience the good wii games are more immersive than any other console i have played.



lenardo1 said:
two very different screen shots.

however the immersion between both and interactivity is about the same, just one is slightly better graphics.


personally in MY experience the good wii games are more immersive than any other console i have played.
 What the hell has the Wii done to the world... 

 




Million said:
lenardo1 said:
two very different screen shots.

however the immersion between both and interactivity is about the same, just one is slightly better graphics.


personally in MY experience the good wii games are more immersive than any other console i have played.
 What the hell has the Wii done to the world... 

 


 Well to be honest I like the change made by the Wii, but on topic most of the videogames are highly interactive, so, if you change the way to interact with the game you are offering another way of immersion... (in this case most of the Wii owners like the new way...)

 PD. Try to find a related pic, landscaping of a paramo != jungle ...



By me:

Made with Blender + LuxRender
"Since you can´t understand ... there is no point to taking you seriously."

@ FJ I coudln't think of a Wii game where the enviroment was similar to that of a PS3/360 game. I did it in like 20 seconds...

 

MSG 4 ( PS3)

 

  Gears Of War XBOX360

 

VS

 

 

 










I mean come on  , the Wii is way more interactive , but immersive ? I don't think so.

 

im·merse (ĭ-mûrs')
tr.v., -mersed, -mers·ing, -mers·es.

  1. To cover completely in a liquid; submerge.
  2. To baptize by submerging in water.
  3. To engage wholly or deeply; absorb: scholars who immerse themselves in their subjects.
According to the dictionary defintion of immerse I don't think Wii games could do that to the extent that a PS3/360 game could.

 




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Dang, I wish I could remember the name of the guy, but he did comics that took introspective looks as to how comics as storytelling medium work.

One of the points that stuck with me most is how objects are depicted in detail and how simplified drawings actually make an object more personally connected to the reader. As an example, if you were to think about "your mother" you would think about her as your mother (at least i'm hoping so) and not [paternal unit of height xyz, weight xyz, skin shade, hair color, eye color, hair length, build, blood type, wrinkles in these locations, etc]

I played the Heavenly Sword demo, which was supposed to demonstrate some of the best graphics at the time, but really, I could have had just as much fun if the whole thing had the same graphics as OoT, provided that it held the same level of detail in terms of multiple object interaction and the smoothness of the motion.

quite frankly, as far as immersion goes, No More Heroes gave me one of the best experiences. Even though the "open world" was utterly sparse, the things that I had to use the motion control all made me feel involved in the game, like flicking the Wiimote to make sharp corners and also to deliver the final blow to enemies. I have never gotten such a satisfying experience from thrashing a random enemy. Even the use of the Wiimote speaker from receiving a cellphone call, despite how annoying and scripted she came off as, I still felt personally involved in those. Same thing for the weight training and wrestling moves.

I'll admit, PS3 and 360 are a lot of fun to WATCH, but when it comes to actually playing, I'm too busy playing to worry about counting the leaves on the trees.



Seppukuties is like LBP Lite, on crack. Play it already!

Currently wrapped up in: Half Life, Portal, and User Created Source Mods
Games I want: (Wii)Mario Kart, Okami, Bully, Conduit,  No More Heroes 2 (GC) Eternal Darkness, Killer7, (PS2) Ico, God of War1&2, Legacy of Kain: SR2&Defiance


My Prediction: Wii will be achieve 48% market share by the end of 2008, and will achieve 50% by the end of june of 09. Prediction Failed.

<- Click to see more of her

 

Anyway, wasn't Zelda TP developed for GC and has GC-level graphics? Why marking it as Wii graphics then?

For me immersion isn't tied to graphics, in some cases lifelike graphics makes the game repulsive for me. I was more immersed in the games like Lotus for Amiga500, than some of the most advanced racing games out there today. Same goes for other genres.




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Million said:
@ FJ I coudln't think of a Wii game where the enviroment was similar to that of a PS3/360 game. I did it in like 20 seconds...

 

 

Is the best "nature related" shoot, is part of the game but is cutscene made with the engine... so it serves our purpose...



By me:

Made with Blender + LuxRender
"Since you can´t understand ... there is no point to taking you seriously."
FJ-Warez said:
swyggi said:
 

 I wasn't referring to the HD consoles as being more immersive because they had great graphics.  It's the feeling of being lost in a game as opposed to being aware of what you're doing.  Many people would agree that you can be more immersed in the gamecube version of TP than the Wii version of TP BECAUSE there are no motion controls.  It's the concept of being in the game vs. interacting with it.

 

You are right however in saying that Immersion and Interaction are not mutually exclusive because they can be combined in ways.  However, the more interaction that takes place the more immersion is taken away.  Ex: MP3 is immersive and relies on controls for interaction while keeping immersion in check most of the time, but Wii sports' controls make it too obvious to what you're doing because of the amount of movement in comparison to MP3 taking away from immersion and giving more to interaction.       


 At this point you are more into a movie type of game, and how many games are like movies???

I don't think the same,  the most immersive games featured heavy interaction, even if it was just a button masher...

 

This has nothing to do with movie type games or whatever you're implying.  When a gamer is more into the game ITSELF, rather than having to think about what he/she is doing on the outside and the connection into the game is very strong, he/she has become deeply immersed.  Playing a game in a relaxed manner with a joystick is enough to get someone immersed, heck games have been like this for the past 20 years.   If you're interacting by moving your hands like shaking it or something, you will become tired (no matter how little tired, you wouldn't be tired at all if you didn't move your hands).  Thus making the gamer aware of what he or she is doing and taking away from the subconscious feeling you get while playing the game even if very subtle. 

 

Think of Immersion as the subconscious and Interaction as the conscious.

 

To your last sentence: that's just it though, pressing buttons is not very much interaction at all.  Pressing a button isn't the same as swinging a sword, but you pressed a button thus making Link  swing a sword.  When you use a Wii-Mote to move your arm and swing the sword it becomes more obvious because your arms get a feeling of tiredness regardless of how relaxed you are.  So instead of focusing on the game as much, you have to focus on what you're doing on the outside in order to make the game do what you want it to do on the inside.  There are an infinite number of ways to swing your arm, but there's only one B-button. 

 

 

 



This will only take a moment of your time. *steals your watch*

FJ-Warez said:
Million said:
@ FJ I coudln't think of a Wii game where the enviroment was similar to that of a PS3/360 game. I did it in like 20 seconds...

 

Is the best "nature related" shoot, is part of the game but is cutscene made with the engine... so it serves our purpose...


 Some body's cheating :) , game engine or not it's a cute scene.