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Forums - Gaming - GTA is not a "casual" game!

Aside from casual and hardcore being exclusionary bullshit on the level of indie rock douchebags (I.E. completely worthless). (See DieselSweetie's Indie Rock Pete and his music I like chart)

GTA is a very mainstream and simple game to play. It is a franchise that originally started mostly on shock value and simple game play mechanics (Steal cares, shoot people at request of jackoff B, drive stolen car to location C) that haven't particularly changed since it's inception 10 years ago.

It also is a huge budget game with ridiculous attention to detail and what the game writers feel an excellent attempt at story writing and narrative in a videogame, as well as greatly improved interactions with the environment. Even if one article hyping that made it sound like the glitches present in all Sandbox games were actually a feature in this game! Yeah, that was spectacular bullshit, but anyway.

Whatever of those two paragraphs fit it best in your opinion, whether casual or hardcore, it's a game that took a lot of effort to appeal to a wide audience. Don't let it bother you one way or another.



See Ya George.

"He did not die - He passed Away"

At least following a comedians own jokes makes his death easier.

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Wow, another wall of text by someone who doesnt like GTA4....

GTA4 is both a casual, and hardcore game.



Erik Aston said:

Can we stop all this nonsense about GTA being "one of the most casual games"?

Just because the game is very popular does not mean it is casual.

Just becaue the game is perceived to be played by people who may not play many other games does not mean it is casual. The most "hardcore" gamers probably actually play very few games since they may stick to a few genres and just the top few games in those genres.

I don't give those arguments enough credit to discuss them at length, but worth discussing is the observation that players can play GTA in the same fashion as casual games; the numberless "I don't play the missions" players who just run around bringing mayhem to the city.

While GTAIII (and the subsequent GTA games) appear to be played in a similar style to Brain Age or Wii Fit, with the length of the session varying and being unimportant for enjoyment, and with no "progress" being made, GTA actually follows in a long tradition of sandbox/adventure games dating back decades.

Going all the way back to Adventure on the Atari 2600, there have been games based around exploration and player-driven storytelling. It isn't unlike children playing with dolls or action figures and making up their own storylines. Adventure obviously feels restrictive today, but at the time it was revolutionary for the way the player is dropped into a world which they are supposed to discover on their own terms.

Metroid and Zelda are among the most important and well-known games to follow in this line. These games followed a set narrative, but the player got to control how it unfolded. The Zelda games are illustrative because there is a general disagreement over the importance of the storyline in them. On their own the storylines are pretty poor, yet they are cited as part of what makes Zelda so great. In fact, the story feels so amazing and epic because the player is put in charge of telling it. Even though the game must be played in a certain order, the openness of the world lets the player explore, and it starts to feel like everything they do is part of "the legend" whether a menial side task they creatively addressed on their own, or a cutscene to drive the little bits of actual plot.

Eventually the player learns the rules of the game, and in turn sees the limits of what they can do, and they discover that they aren't actually telling the story, and the game is no longer fun. This is why older gamers are disappointed with newer Zelda games and say it feels like they are just completing a sequence of tasks, yet they still get big sales from people less familiar with the rules of Zelda (the items, puzzles, etc).

GTAIII was so groundbreaking because it opened this world up even further, and made it so much bigger, and filled it with so many other living things. The multitude of people and cars moving around the giant city creates an extremely large and complex set of rules for the player to discover. Rockstar was able to make a world complex enough that the set narrative could be moved completely to the back burner.

And because of this, you get the "I don't play the missions" folks. As I said, they may appear to be playing the same way as someone playing Brain Age. But actually, they are telling their own stories everytime they play, and learning a little bit about the rules of the game world. While the Brain Age folks are more motivated by "high scores." They learn the rules of the game right away, and then repeat the same tasks every day to improve at them. The game stops being fun when their rate of improval slows down. This type of game transfers well to social play, with games like Guitar Hero and the mini-games in Wii Fit. While people take turns theoretically to show off how high they can score, as long as each person feels like they are improving at a good rate, everyone has fun regardless of differences in skill. You're driven to buy the game after playing it for just a short while and seeing much of the content because of the addictiveness of getting better, just like old high score based arcade games drive you to keep putting quarters in.

I'm not saying that this difference in playstyle is the difference between "casual" and "core." Not in the least. But all the other attributes of GTA--the content and context, the controls, the intended audience--are also very traditional and "core." The playstyle is the only thing which appears to be "casual," but it actually follows directly in the tradition of core games like Zelda. And in that light, I see no defense for the idea that GTA is "casual."

And that's significant because there's been a longstanding argument that Wii is following in the footsteps of PS2 by getting the casual player, with GTA being example #1. Equating GTA and Wii Sports as both being "casual" is a quick way to explain Wii's success. But if you look deeper at the playstyles that Wii is appealing to versus PS2, PS2 was building on things that had been "core" since PS1 or before, while Wii is taking other playstyles which had previously been less popular but applying them to a context that appeals to different audiences.

 

 

Well. I hope someone actually reads that.


 That is an *awfully* long rant for something so stupid to care about.

Does the fact that someone thinks the game is casual really bother you enough to stop playing the game you love and write this stupid long rant?  Really, how does someone thinking a game is casual affect your game?  

That's right, it doesn't.  So stop caring what people call your game. 



Username2324 said:
Wow, another wall of text by someone who doesnt like GTA4....

GTA4 is both a casual, and hardcore game.

Methinks you should read the post before responding. All the OP is arguing is that GTA isn't a casual game. 

On a side note, why would it be insulting if someone called it a casual game? The "hardcore" sure are sensitive about the C word. 



Its beyond my why so many people think concepts such as "casual" and "hardcore" have to be mutually exclusive. GTA 4 can be both it depends on how you play it.

I veiw it as a very balanced game that can cater to multiple player preferences.



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I don't think I wrote enough up front to put my ramblings in context...

I certainly agree that casual and hardcore are bogus terms and things should be broke down in more depth. But as long as some folks are putting the term casual out there as a way to insult the new "retard" games as someone mentioned, let's examine why these games are legitimately different, and not turn things around and say all previous generations had "casual" games on the winning consoles; essentially saying anything popular is casual, which is either totally elitist or a backwards defense of the current casual boom. I have seen GTA called casual so many times in the past few weeks it was starting to bug me.

The main thing about GTA that looks similar to the "retard" games is how people play short sessions just fooling around, having fun with no effort, but the root of that in GTA's case is entirely different than the "retard" games. GTAIII really followed Ocarina as the next great game of that type, as many people will tell you. And while some question what I'm saying about storytelling, that's exactly what it is. There is a set narrative to the game, and the player progresses in a set order, but the open world is designed to give the player some level of control and a feeling of even greater control. Players don't just run around doing random stuff because they can, they create an internal narrative. I don't mean literature, I just mean in a childlike play sort of way. In Ocarina, that narrative was interwoven with the actual plotpoints which progressed the game, and created a feeling of a huge, epic story from a few pages of mostly nonsense plot. In GTAIII, the world was big, complex, and wide open enough that the player's own narrative could completely take over.

And if you still don't understand, think about what people were talking about when both Ocarina and GTAIII were huge. They didn't just talk about the main story points or the technical things you have to do to beat the game. They literally started telling their own stories of all the different things they tried and all the ways the game responded as they completed a game objective or a self-set objective.

Certainly being "pick-up-and-play" does not make something casual. It just makes something well-designed. At least if we're going to call GTA "pick-up-and-play," when it really can only be picked up easily by a limited number of people. But the fact that the fun in the game can be accessed quickly is just good design. Only elitists confuse hurdles to having fun with fun itself. And there are games of every genre in existance which are pick-up-and-play. Again, we should look at what really seperates the "retard" games from the traditional games.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

Erik Aston said:

It isn't unlike children playing with dolls or action figures and making up their own storylines.


 Uhm....so its casual? Glad we agree.



To Each Man, Responsibility
Sqrl said:
Erik Aston said:

It isn't unlike children playing with dolls or action figures and making up their own storylines.


 Uhm....so its casual? Glad we agree.


Fabulous.

Pretty much all games tap into some sort of childlike play, so I guess everything is casual.



"[Our former customers] are unable to find software which they WANT to play."
"The way to solve this problem lies in how to communicate what kind of games [they CAN play]."

Satoru Iwata, Nintendo President. Only slightly paraphrased.

GTA is a series that appeals to both hardcore fans and casual fans. The same goes for Halo, Mario, Final Fantasy etc. Basically any game that is hugely successful must cater for the casual audience to some degree, they certainly wouldn't achieve their level of success otherwise.

To argue that GTA is not a series with casual appeal is absurd, so absurd in fact that it ignores all manner of fact and reason.



 
Debating with fanboys, its not
all that dissimilar to banging ones
head against a wall 

GTA is a series that appeals to both hardcore fans and casual fans. The same goes for Halo, Mario, Final Fantasy etc. Basically any game that is hugely successful must cater for the casual audience to some degree, they certainly wouldn't achieve their level of success otherwise.

To argue that GTA is not a series with casual appeal is absurd, so absurd in fact that it ignores all manner of fact and reason.



 
Debating with fanboys, its not
all that dissimilar to banging ones
head against a wall