Kyros said: Wii Sports is not only the most influential game of this generation but the single most influential game since early in the 5th generation. I am a card-carrying HD fanboy but even I would have to agree with that. Everyone who played a round of Wii Tennis instantly thinks that the Wii is the perfect console for playing with friends in the same room. As deficient Wii solo play may be in my eyes if I had a couple of friends over a big room and wanted something to play I would take the Wii over the PS3 anytime. And this is 95% Wii Sports. All these minigame compilations with their kiddy graphics and forced fun factor suck but Wii Tennis is something even total non-gamers find amazing. I think you cannot overstate Wii Sports influence on the Wiis success. But back to GTA4: Doing something new is only one aspect of innovation and greatness, doing something incredibly good is another even more important factor. (Wii fans tend to downplay that because Nintendo followed a more disruptive approach this gen but its nevertheless true) And GTA4 may have the same general game mechanics as GTA on the PS2, but boy has the game grown up. Play it, really, its amazing. The incredible graphics are an important part of creating a living breathing city around you but they are by far not all. It is lightyears ahead of its predecessors. Yes in General the same applies for Kart or Brawl but IMO GTA made a much farther jump.

That's not the reason they down play it. They downplay it because ALL fanboys downplay quality of things they don't like. There's nothing special about fanboys knocking something that makes the other side look good. So why do you think there is some reason specific to the Wii here?

Oh yeah, it's your implication that disruption is mutually exclusive with games being incredibly good. That is how that comment came across, that Nintendo is putting disruption over their games being incredibly good. 

But when Ratchet & Clank got a lower than expected score it was all bias, wasn't it?

My quick view (yes, after reading the whole post):

1) some good points regarding reviews for Wii titles - reviewers are struggling with certain titles for a variety of reasons, some you mention some I think you don't. Certainly many reviewers have no idea how to review something like Wii Sports (I think you could wonder should something like Wii Fit should even be reviewed using standard approaches?)

2) only PS3/360 owners worried about Wii and banging on about GTA are a tiny hardcore minority who see Wii sales as a slight for 'their' console and 'their' types of games. You yourself in defending the Wii as you do seem to come close to showing a similar bias - for example you mention Wii as having a 'superior' control style. For some games? Sure, for all? In general? Come on don't be silly. For example for FPS or anything requiring very high precision nothing exceeds a keyboard and mouse. My point is you're reading way too much in your second section on a minority. The majority of 360/PS3 owners want games/experiences that I would argue the Wii is not well designed to support - GTA is probably the big example right now, but basically I'm thinking narrative, PC like games (because in truth if you look at most big hitters on 360/PS3 they are essentially derivative of years of trends on PCs.) that have a preset bar for graphics, etc. due to their roots on PCs. Take Bioshock (which I played on PC but I've seen is pretty similar on 360) for example. Sure it could be on Wii with lower res textures, etc. But playing it like that would seem like a step back for the very gamers who like that type of game. This is my first gen as a true console owner (I come from PC gaming background) but what I can see that is truly different this gen is that the Wii and 360/PS3 are really offering very different experiences - particularly when you consider how PS3/360 cater to media centre use as well. I have a PS3 and will be getting a Wii in June. They will sit in seperate rooms (the PS3 hooked up to an HD TV, the Wii to a large CRT TV) and both will get good, but very different, use.

3) The Wii hasn't in my opinion 'changed the game' as drastically as many claim, particularly with regards to HD consoles. Its simply tapping a different market. From what I see Wii owners fall into two main camps - the Nintendo loyal who probably had GC, etc. and the so called 'casual market' - i.e. parents buying for children. 80% of Wil owners I know bought it for their children. Just as 80% of PS2 owners I know bought it for their children. What it has changed is two things - one, unlike PS2 its increased family gaming (i.e. mom and dad playing too) and two, its brought in new conepts such as Wii Fit and motion control for certain game types. As I mention in my previous point what the HD consoles offer with games like GTA, Halo, Bioshock, etc. is not under threat from Wii - likewise what Wii offers is not under threat from those consoles.

4) The title of your thread is pretty poor choice of words and does not really reflect the good points you raise in the body of the post

5) I'd be very interested to know who (if anyone) made a choice of Wii vs 360 vs PS3. Everyone I know with a Wii considered only that option. Everyone I know with a 360 or PS3 considered only those two consoles. I actually don't know anyone who compared them all at the same time and then chose one over the other. This may just be the demographic I've been exposed to - but I get the feeling that mostly they appeal to different demographics. The Wii is in the position of appealing to the largest demographic (as the PS2 did before it) while the 360 and PS3 appeal to a smaller (although if you add their sales and compare total HD consoles purchase to Wii it does raise possibility that the market is spilt pretty evenly at that level) but probably more vocal demographic


Overall a good post, but I'd avoid going for an attention grabbing title next time and try and avoid basing too much on minority stances vs the larger majority. As you correctly state for example majority of Wii owners probably never look at a single review at all.

-_-

No point arguing.

If people stop making these threads, the game will be forgotten.

If you continue making them, then people will continue arguing.

Stop making threads = Moving onto bigger/better things.

Simple enough, now who will try it? These threads are getting tiresome.

With your post count, you should know damn well this is par for the course for fanboys. Why should GTA IV be left out of this?

EDIT: Note I am not stating that this is legit, just that you should have expected this. 

I am not going to read all this (hell, I couldn't even get through the OP), but let me ask you all if this is right.

We have a post here, that took a Nintendo fan a very long time to think up and write, all in reaction to a game that seems to threaten Nintendo fans for some unknown reason, and he is calling HD console owners desperate?

Is it just me, or is that the pot calling the kettle black?

If you couldn't read all that, you really shouldn't comment on it. That's why I don't comment on GT IV itself, either good or bad, since I don't have it yet. 

 If he wasn't desperate, why post at all? That's a lot of time to post about something that really should have zero impact on him. Let the people who play the game enjoy the game, and you just continue to enjoy whatever it is you do.

desperate might not be the right word... probably closer to threatened. 

 Don't know why I was mentioned here.. but I don't remember ever commenting on a successful Wii title by dismissing it as something of an conspiracy.

I see you changed your post, making my reply not match up.

To replay to this comment of yours. I don't need to see all of the movie "Saving Private Ryan" to know it was a war movie. I am not commenting on what the OP is saying, I am commenting on why the OP is saying it.

It's a log post to try and justify in the OP's mind why this GTA4 phenomenon is happening. Somehow if they can classify something they don't understand into a derogatory reality, they can feel ok with themselves again.

I think this post has a lot more to do with the OP, then GTA. HD consoles, or Nintendo. It's something they wrote for there own benefit, and not really for anyone else.

To the OP. Don't overanalyze it, stop trying to figure out the psyche of gamers that don't think like you, and just enjoy playing whatever games you do enjoy playing. You will probably live a few years longer :)