Deleted By Request

Buy Metroid Prime 4: Beyond on December 4th!

As we are getting started with this thread, I’m getting a better idea as to how we can traverse such inherently risk grounds that come from faith. I think a good rule I’ll propose to moderation (to which moderation will respond simply with a thread ban; not intended to be punitive, only intended to maintain the peace) here is as follows: If you take issue with what somebody has shared in this thread, take it to PM. Otherwise, you run the risk of derailing this thread. This is not supposed to be a debate thread, but a thread for asking/answering questions and encouraging one another in faith.

Fellow atheist (or agnostic?) here. My opinion, and it may be wrong, is that most atheists don't deny the remote possibility of a god, just that there is no evidence to support it. Therefore, most don't believe in a god. That doesn't automatically translate to believing there is no god. Because as a science and fact-based worldview, we can't know for sure. We just haven't see any real evidence yet.

If god comes knocking on my door tomorrow, then I guess I believe in God, ya know? But until then, I don't.

Ah I see the issue! So, I did some (albeit very brief) research into the formal definition of atheism and agnosticism, and it appears there is some division: Whereas some philosophers (and many theists) often boil atheism down to “believing there is no god(s)” and agnosticism to “openness to believing there is a god or that there is not a god,” others (including many atheists) will define atheism as the “lack of belief in a god or gods.”

That said…yeah I might just have to drop out of this conversation on “Atheism is/is not a belief system.” The claim is apparently a bit more nuanced/divisive than I once thought.

I guess it's a matter of perspective, one would argue that if you have 0 of something you have nothing hence you cannot have anything less, yet another could say that you can have -10 of something, and therefore you owe something

relatively speaking - and based on the Bible - Jesus teaching is supposed to be the most important thing in a Christian's life, hence Luke 14:26 saying one must hate their father and mother in order to get to Jesus - because His teaching is meant to be above human love (e.g. if your father is Hilter or Putin who go against Jesus teaching by causing suffering to others, then it is better to hate them than betray Jesus teaching)

when it comes to atheism, I understand it is a lack of belief, but at the same time there must be something that is the most important thing during your time in this world, I don't think belief in nothing is your most important thing right?

it can be something physical or someone's teaching, it doesn't really matter, there is always something that is the *most* important thing to people, and for many, that is what you believe in

doesn't have to be called religion or faith, what you perceive as important is what you believe in, and in the end of the day what defines your mentality, and state of mind, also defines your actions and therefore who you are - so the end result is the same as having a religion

Luke 14:26

I have heard it many times. Each time I think it is wrong. 

The question we should ask ourselves is what is 'belief'? Here is a common definition from a dictionary.

conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

So, right off the bat, a belief is a STATEMENT OF TRUTH. When you believe in something, you think of it as true. When one says I am an atheist, they are stating there is NO GOD. That is not 'lack' of belief. That is a statement. A fact you are saying out loud. I can have a 'lack of belief' in unicorns, but I still don't believe they are real. It is MY BELIEF that unicorns are not real. That is a statement of what I believe is fact. Replace that with god, and there you go! You made the same type of statement. 

If you want to take a true neutral position, like a scientist would do. You would state that there is no evidence for God's existence or nonexistence. That is called agnosticism. 

In short, atheism is not the DEFAULT position. You are stating in the ground that there is NO GOD. The DEFAULT position is agnosticism. Therefore, if someone tells me, I don't know if there is or is not a god.

I consider that a lack of belief in ANYTHING. Not just gods, but how the world works. Whether you believe in god or not, it fundamentally changes the way you think of the world. 

For example. Where do morals come from? If you believe in god, you would say. 'God.' 
If you are an atheist, you say 'Morality is a social construct, and can change depending on what society deems acceptable at the time.'
An agnostic is someone who says, 'I don't know where morality comes from. Because I lack belief that they have a source.'

TLDR:

Agnosticism is the true 'lack of belief' that atheists claim they have. By claiming yourself as an atheist, you are stating there are NO gods. None. Just like how atheists like to claim there is 'no' evidence of god. I like to turn it around and say, 'You have no evidence that there is not one.' Either way, you are taking a stance. Which one do you believe in? Guess what? You took a stance.  

If you wish to read more. I highly recommend this webpage.

Link
https://www.answers-in-reason.com/religion/atheism/is-the-lack-of-belief-definition-of-atheism-the-most-common-one-used/

Anyway, let us not derail the thread. This can be done elsewhere at another time. 

Anyway, to push forward the thread past that last post.

Does anyone have a particular way they like their music in a typical Sunday service? I prefer the angelic singing of the Gregorian Chants because it feels like angels are singing. (I really like the Latin Mass. Sue me.)
Although that type of music is very old school, but I now know where JRPGs get their typical 'epic' music from!

I really love a traditional choir you’d find in any protestant congregation. As somebody who has played FHorn at church most Sundays since May 2021, that’s just kinda how my preference has been developed. Plus, I love all the chords and it’s very easy to sing along (and thereby give praise to the Lord with my tongue!).

I’ll have to link some pieces… I’ve got a whole repository of worship music I listen to.

Here are three songs I think perfectly represent what I listen too. I don' think these would be played on a Sunday, but they are good for everyday listening!