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Forums - Microsoft - Xbox announces partnership with AMD for "next generation Xbox consoles"

smroadkill15 said:
curl-6 said:

Gamepass is never going to become the "Netflix of gaming".

It's been 8 years now since the service launched, it's clear by this point that most of the gaming audience just isn't that interested in an expensive online rental service.

Gamepass also trained the Xbox player base to not actually buy games, undermining software sales.

Netflix is available on way more devices and more accessible with streaming. If Game Pass was on Playstation and Nintendo systems, subs would likely be upwards of 80 million by now. 

Game Pass can and is considered the "Netflix of gaming" key word: Gaming. Not of all entrainment. As, Otter said, it's all relative to the medium. 

That's just speculation though; it's not available on PS/Nintendo, it likely never will be. 

Gamepass has nowhere near the ubiquity of Netflix, and it's unlikely it ever will.



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curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

"Moving forward, AMD will go beyond building custom chips for Xbox consoles to designing a full roadmap of gaming-optimized chips. Combining the power of Ryzen and Radeon for consoles, handhelds, PCs, and the cloud."

"Together, we are building a vibrant, open ecosystem that delivers the next generation of graphics and immersive gameplay powered by AI that includes new foundational models to accelerate the state of the art in rendering."

"From console to cloud to handheld, AMD and Microsoft are building the future of immersive gaming. We are so excited to be working with Microsoft to bring all of this tech to gamers everywhere."

Lisa Su, Chair and CEO of AMD

Lot of buzzwords and PR Talk, but talk is cheap and it will be challenging for them to deliver a "next gen" leap with diminishing returns kicking in hard these days.

Will be interesting to see what they're actually able to deliver.

Going from RDNA 2 to RDNA 4 in the same "tier" of product segment, there is definitely a massive leap.

It's all in the Ray Tracing and A.I. upscaling which are providing some of the largest improvements I have seen in a very long time.
In RT alone I am seeing a 5x improvement.

...And with Neural materials, textures, compression, shaders and more all coming before next-gen... We could see some extremely large visual gains if AMD is able to adopt and implement them in a tasteful manner in time. (They have a couple years yet.)

There is a paradigm shift occurring in the industry (Hardware and software) in how we render games, which has historically provided the largest leaps in graphics in previous console generations.


crissindahouse said:

Game Pass won't reach Netflix numbers because almost everyone on this planet watches movies and/or shows but many who play games just play smartphone games and some don't game at all.

But that doesn't mean it can't be the "Netflix of gaming"

Netflix also needed many years to reach like 50m users and that with streaming movies...

Gamepass allows you to stream console quality games to mobile.

If game streaming takes off, that's when Gamepass will take off in massive numbers I think.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

Lot of buzzwords and PR Talk, but talk is cheap and it will be challenging for them to deliver a "next gen" leap with diminishing returns kicking in hard these days.

Will be interesting to see what they're actually able to deliver.

Next gen hardware will be fairly different than what is available currently - accent is on RT and AI in GFX pipeline, and AI enhancements throughout the whole game pipeline.

If it pans out that would be cool, I'm just sceptical for the moment, as the last two gens were also promised to be the "biggest leap ever" yet diminishing returns were still a thing compared to prior gens.



curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

Next gen hardware will be fairly different than what is available currently - accent is on RT and AI in GFX pipeline, and AI enhancements throughout the whole game pipeline.

If it pans out that would be cool, I'm just sceptical for the moment, as the last two gens were also promised to be the "biggest leap ever" yet diminishing returns were still a thing compared to prior gens.

Well, if the leaks are to be believed (and apparently they come from a source that was pretty spot on in previous occasions), UDNA is 2x in RT/AI per CU than RDNA4. So compared to current gen consoles (which are RDNA2 with very poor RT, with no dedicated AI hardware), this will be humongous leap in those particular aspects (compare that to very modest 20% per CU increase in raster over RDNA4, which is already way ahead of current gen consoles).

Of course, it will be up to devs to use this how they see fit - personally, I'm most excited to see what this brings to gameplay, since even something as "ordinary" as full path traced lighting can be huge gameplay-wise for dungeon crawlers and stealth games - but I'm mostly excited to see how it goes with AI NPCs and similar stuff.



HoloDust said:

Well, if the leaks are to be believed (and apparently they come from a source that was pretty spot on in previous occasions), UDNA is 2x in RT/AI per CU than RDNA4.

There will be a gen-on-gen improvement in RT.. That's not really up for debate as it's what nVidia and AMD are concentrating on in their GPU designs currently. (And A.I)

HoloDust said:

So compared to current gen consoles (which are RDNA2 with very poor RT, with no dedicated AI hardware), this will be humongous leap in those particular aspects (compare that to very modest 20% per CU increase in raster over RDNA4, which is already way ahead of current gen consoles).

That's actually not true.

RDNA2 actually has a Ray accelerator in each CU.

RDNA3 actually keeps the single Ray accelerator in each CU, but tends to offer more CU's or clocks at every Tier... Plus a few efficiency improvements in the RT accelerators, but that wasn't the focus of the design... Which is why in RT the jump between the 6600XT and 7600XT wasn't massive.

https://gamersnexus.net/gpus/amd-radeon-rx-7600-xt-gpu-benchmarks-review-power-efficiency-gaming#7600-xt-ray-tracing-benchmarks


With RDNA4 - AMD implemented a crap-ton of improvements, but still kept the single Ray Accelerator per CU... Improvements like a doubled intersection engine in each Ray Accelerator (Which allows for more ray-box and ray-triangle intersections per cycle) and a wider BVH as well as BVH compression and more.

https://chipsandcheese.com/p/rdna-4s-raytracing-improvements

And despite the same number of CU's and Ray Accellerators... I still saw an upwards of a 4x-5x improvement in RT heavy games like Oblivion Remastered and Cyberpunk at 1440P ultra settings. (But limited VRAM likely played a role in that on the 6600XT)


https://www.techspot.com/review/2996-amd-radeon-9060-xt/



Considering the de-focus on raster and priority focus on RT and A.I... A doubling in RT over the RDNA4 parts would be entirely what I would expect for next-gen UDNA GPU hardware... Especially if AMD -finally- re-aligns how many ray accelerators they have in their parts.

curl-6 said:

If it pans out that would be cool, I'm just sceptical for the moment, as the last two gens were also promised to be the "biggest leap ever" yet diminishing returns were still a thing compared to prior gens.

I am normally extremely skeptical of outlandish claims in the technology space.
However... I cannot understate how massive the potential next couple of years is going to be in regards to rendering technology is. - I haven't been this excited since we started to see programmable pixel shaders.

AMD and nVidia are investing 10's of Billions in A.I and RT stuff.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
HoloDust said:

Well, if the leaks are to be believed (and apparently they come from a source that was pretty spot on in previous occasions), UDNA is 2x in RT/AI per CU than RDNA4.

There will be a gen-on-gen improvement in RT.. That's not really up for debate as it's what nVidia and AMD are concentrating on in their GPU designs currently. (And A.I)

Sorry mate, you lost me there - of course it will be improvements, and of course AMD and nVidia are focusing on RT and AI - KeplerL2's leak states UDNA is 2x over RDNA4 per CU, that's what I was referring to.

HoloDust said:

So compared to current gen consoles (which are RDNA2 with very poor RT, with no dedicated AI hardware), this will be humongous leap in those particular aspects (compare that to very modest 20% per CU increase in raster over RDNA4, which is already way ahead of current gen consoles).

That's actually not true.

RDNA2 actually has a Ray accelerator in each CU.

RDNA3 actually keeps the single Ray accelerator in each CU, but tends to offer more CU's or clocks at every Tier... Plus a few efficiency improvements in the RT accelerators, but that wasn't the focus of the design... Which is why in RT the jump between the 6600XT and 7600XT wasn't massive.

https://gamersnexus.net/gpus/amd-radeon-rx-7600-xt-gpu-benchmarks-review-power-efficiency-gaming#7600-xt-ray-tracing-benchmarks


With RDNA4 - AMD implemented a crap-ton of improvements, but still kept the single Ray Accelerator per CU... Improvements like a doubled intersection engine in each Ray Accelerator (Which allows for more ray-box and ray-triangle intersections per cycle) and a wider BVH as well as BVH compression and more.

https://chipsandcheese.com/p/rdna-4s-raytracing-improvements

And despite the same number of CU's and Ray Accellerators... I still saw an upwards of a 4x-5x improvement in RT heavy games like Oblivion Remastered and Cyberpunk at 1440P ultra settings. (But limited VRAM likely played a role in that on the 6600XT)


https://www.techspot.com/review/2996-amd-radeon-9060-xt/



Considering the de-focus on raster and priority focus on RT and A.I... A doubling in RT over the RDNA4 parts would be entirely what I would expect for next-gen UDNA GPU hardware... Especially if AMD -finally- re-aligns how many ray accelerators they have in their parts.


Again, you lost me here again - RNDA2, which is in current gen consoles, is RT capable (never said otherwise), but it's performance is piss poor. RDNA4 is massive improvement over it ("way ahead over current gen consoles" from original post), and according to leak, UDNA is 2x that per CU. And KeplerL2 has good track record, so very plausible.

So, to be honest, not really sure what you're really contesting here.



HoloDust said:
Pemalite said:

There will be a gen-on-gen improvement in RT.. That's not really up for debate as it's what nVidia and AMD are concentrating on in their GPU designs currently. (And A.I)

Sorry mate, you lost me there - of course it will be improvements, and of course AMD and nVidia are focusing on RT and AI - KeplerL2's leak states UDNA is 2x over RDNA4 per CU, that's what I was referring to.

HoloDust said:

So compared to current gen consoles (which are RDNA2 with very poor RT, with no dedicated AI hardware), this will be humongous leap in those particular aspects (compare that to very modest 20% per CU increase in raster over RDNA4, which is already way ahead of current gen consoles).

That's actually not true.

RDNA2 actually has a Ray accelerator in each CU.

RDNA3 actually keeps the single Ray accelerator in each CU, but tends to offer more CU's or clocks at every Tier... Plus a few efficiency improvements in the RT accelerators, but that wasn't the focus of the design... Which is why in RT the jump between the 6600XT and 7600XT wasn't massive.

https://gamersnexus.net/gpus/amd-radeon-rx-7600-xt-gpu-benchmarks-review-power-efficiency-gaming#7600-xt-ray-tracing-benchmarks


With RDNA4 - AMD implemented a crap-ton of improvements, but still kept the single Ray Accelerator per CU... Improvements like a doubled intersection engine in each Ray Accelerator (Which allows for more ray-box and ray-triangle intersections per cycle) and a wider BVH as well as BVH compression and more.

https://chipsandcheese.com/p/rdna-4s-raytracing-improvements

And despite the same number of CU's and Ray Accellerators... I still saw an upwards of a 4x-5x improvement in RT heavy games like Oblivion Remastered and Cyberpunk at 1440P ultra settings. (But limited VRAM likely played a role in that on the 6600XT)


https://www.techspot.com/review/2996-amd-radeon-9060-xt/



Considering the de-focus on raster and priority focus on RT and A.I... A doubling in RT over the RDNA4 parts would be entirely what I would expect for next-gen UDNA GPU hardware... Especially if AMD -finally- re-aligns how many ray accelerators they have in their parts.


Again, you lost me here again - RNDA2, which is in current gen consoles, is RT capable (never said otherwise), but it's performance is piss poor. RDNA4 is massive improvement over it ("way ahead over current gen consoles" from original post), and according to leak, UDNA is 2x that per CU. And KeplerL2 has good track record, so very plausible.

So, to be honest, not really sure what you're really contesting here.

Sorry mate, mostly taking issue with your statement that the RDNA2 architecture doesn't have dedicated RT hardware. I should have made that point clearer.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
HoloDust said:

Sorry mate, mostly taking issue with your statement that the RDNA2 architecture doesn't have dedicated RT hardware. I should have made that point clearer.

No problem mate, but I think you've misread...it was "very poor RT, with no dedicated AI hardware"



HoloDust said:
Pemalite said:

Sorry mate, mostly taking issue with your statement that the RDNA2 architecture doesn't have dedicated RT hardware. I should have made that point clearer.

No problem mate, but I think you've misread...it was "very poor RT, with no dedicated AI hardware"

Ah. Yeah. Did misread that.

In saying that... The A.I Cores is just replicating certain formats from the CU's into separate cores.
RDNA2 supports all the important stuff like bfloat, INT4, INT8... Where RDNA2 falls behind is FP8.

The advantage of separate cores for A.I is that it doesn't tie up CU's used for rasterization/ray tracing, but otherwise they don't technically bring new functionality.

So on a technicality, RDNA2 does have "AI Hardware" just not as separate independent cores... But RDNA3 doesn't support every AI operating on it's A.I cores anyway, so some AI operations fall back onto the regular CU's.

RDNA4 stepped things up further again. - In some instances I am seeing an 8x gain over RDNA2 for AI stuff... A.I video upscaling saw a 12x fold performance improvement depending on algorithm.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

curl-6 said:
smroadkill15 said:

Netflix is available on way more devices and more accessible with streaming. If Game Pass was on Playstation and Nintendo systems, subs would likely be upwards of 80 million by now. 

Game Pass can and is considered the "Netflix of gaming" key word: Gaming. Not of all entrainment. As, Otter said, it's all relative to the medium. 

That's just speculation though; it's not available on PS/Nintendo, it likely never will be. 

Gamepass has nowhere near the ubiquity of Netflix, and it's unlikely it ever will.

That's just speculation though as you dont know if they wont..