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Forums - Politics Discussion - Concord is Sony's biggest failure in gaming history.

Majora said:

Where? In the United Kingdom, where I live. 

People are getting arrested/fined in the UK? 

How does JK Rowling even get to walk around then?

Majora said:

Don’t be disingenuous. You know perfectly well the hysteria that ensues regarding “misgendering”. If you’re going to pretend you don’t, then I don’t have anything more to add to you.

People getting called out, isn't remotely the same thing as the government arresting people. 

Majora said:

Also, once again the hysteria. Immediately we jump to a suicide scenario. I’ll make it clear: I do not think it is kind to pander to people’s delusions. Yes, I regard it as thus. Gender dysphoria is indeed a real condition and should be treated and the people treated with respect and care. A person who isn’t gender dysphoric and is a man who wants to be called she/they/xir or whatever else, no, that doesn’t warrant respect. 

Yeah because it rarely ever happens. 

More than 40% of transgender adults in the US have attempted suicide

Majora said:

If your personal identity is so fragile that it needs to be validated by every person in the outside world, you have far bigger problems than being misgendered. 

I'm pretty sure that people who are hysterical about "pandering to people's delusions" also have much bigger problems, yet here we are. 

Trans people make up a very small portion of the population, people who are pushy about neo-pronouns are even much smaller.



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the-pi-guy said:
Majora said:

Where? In the United Kingdom, where I live. 

People are getting arrested/fined in the UK? 

How does JK Rowling even get to walk around then?

Majora said:

Don’t be disingenuous. You know perfectly well the hysteria that ensues regarding “misgendering”. If you’re going to pretend you don’t, then I don’t have anything more to add to you.

People getting called out, isn't remotely the same thing as the government arresting people. 

Majora said:

Also, once again the hysteria. Immediately we jump to a suicide scenario. I’ll make it clear: I do not think it is kind to pander to people’s delusions. Yes, I regard it as thus. Gender dysphoria is indeed a real condition and should be treated and the people treated with respect and care. A person who isn’t gender dysphoric and is a man who wants to be called she/they/xir or whatever else, no, that doesn’t warrant respect. 

Yeah because it rarely ever happens. 

More than 40% of transgender adults in the US have attempted suicide

Majora said:

If your personal identity is so fragile that it needs to be validated by every person in the outside world, you have far bigger problems than being misgendered. 

I'm pretty sure that people who are hysterical about "pandering to people's delusions" also have much bigger problems, yet here we are. 

Trans people make up a very small portion of the population, people who are pushy about neo-pronouns are even much smaller.

Yes, people have been arrested in the UK for misgendering or saying a man is not a woman. Mock this all you like as though I’m a liar or a fantasist, but it’s true. Your Rowling comment was pointless. 

You’re extremely disingenuous and dishonest. I’ll say it once again so you may perhaps understand. You said “I'm pretty sure that people who are hysterical about "pandering to people's delusions" also have much bigger problems, yet here we are.” Again, let me repeat the problem so you may understand - it wouldn’t be a problem at all IF people didn’t INSIST and COMPEL people to use the fucking pronouns. I wish I never had to hear about any of it, and let those people alone and everyone else could be left alone. But it is the COMPULSION coupled with threat and legal action that makes this so egregious. I don’t expect you to agree, neither one of us will ever agree with the other, however perhaps you now can stop dancing around why people are fed up. We don’t care about their pronouns or how they live their lives; we care that there are attempts to force us to pander to their whims and eccentricities. 



Majora said:

Yes, people have been arrested in the UK for misgendering or saying a man is not a woman. Mock this all you like as though I’m a liar or a fantasist, but it’s true. Your Rowling comment was pointless. 

I'm pretty sure the UK law is just about general harassment. I can't find anything about "misgendering" someone being illegal. 

Harassment is pretty vague. Showing up at someone's house twice and calling them a nerd, would likely also get you arrested. 

Majora said:

We don’t care about their pronouns or how they live their lives; we care that there are attempts to force us to pander to their whims and eccentricities. 

This is such a tired argument.

Conservatives constantly claim to not care about how people live their lives. Yet they make it illegal to talk about gay and trans people in schools. Complain about it every time they see pronouns in someone's twitter bio. Complain about men holding hands on TV shows. Ban books that even mention any of these things.

For people that don't care about pronouns, and how people live their lives, they sure seem to care a hell of a lot.

Majora said:

I wish I never had to hear about any of it, and let those people alone and everyone else could be left alone.

There's a billion things i wish I didn't have to hear about. But I live in the real world, where people do all kinds of things. 

Letting people alone, means that other people are going to care about things that you don't care about. They're going to want things that others aren't interested in giving them. 



the-pi-guy said:

In real life, most of the time it's a suggestion. 

This is completely disingenuous.  I've never seen it treated as anything but a demand, sometimes with the threat behind it that you will be labelled, bullied, and attacked verbally and/or on social media by people will try their very best to literally ruin your life.

An online friend of mine switched from "he" to "her".  One day I accidently used "he" in reference to them because we were previously talking about something that happened long before they made the change.  I didn't even notice it, to be honest.  In real life, this happens quite often and people usually joke about it.  Not in this case.  They got angry and guilt tripped me immediately, with "I can't believe you'd turn on me like that" kind of comments and said that I was no different from the other haters.  They wouldn't even say what they were mad about at first.

I really don't care what people call themselves but there is absolutely no way in hell that anyone treats it as a "suggestion".  That just isn't true.

Like a LOT of things in this world, what the majority of people are rebelling against is less the concept itself and more the fact that they are being preached at, insulted, and coerced into following the hive-mind, then being tagged as extremists as a method of control and repression if they don't conform.



If you're going to try selling a multimillion dollar video game, it turns out it's inadvisable to be deliberately contemptuous and exclusionary towards a large portion of your potential audience.
The devs were so focused on trying to fight a culture war that they forgot to actually create an appealing video game.



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pokoko said:

This is completely disingenuous.  I've never seen it treated as anything but a demand, sometimes with the threat behind it that you will be labelled, bullied, and attacked verbally and/or on social media by people will try their very best to literally ruin your life.

You're right. Suggested is not the correct word. I was trying to contrast against "legally enforced". As there is a very large difference there. 

Ignored entirely/Suggested/Demanded/Legally enforced is a much more useful scale.

I doubt very many lives are being ruined as you claim.

pokoko said:

Like a LOT of things in this world, what the majority of people are rebelling against is less the concept itself and more the fact that they are being preached at, insulted, and coerced into following the hive-mind, then being tagged as extremists as a method of control and repression if they don't conform.

I don't think the "majority" of people care either way.

And again, a lot of this stuff about being "preached" at, "insulted" and "coerced", etc, can be argued as true both ways. It pretty much just depends on what community you're trying to talk to, and what point you're trying to make.

Go to r/conservative, you'll get banned, called pedos for being pro-trans people. Get banned for talking about man-made climate change.

Go to r/liberal, you'll get banned, called weird for being anti-trans people. Get banned for talking about climate skepticism.

It's difficult to have open and honest conversations about pretty much anything that's remotely considered political. Because a lot of them are exerting control, probably out of fear in a lot of cases. Fear of what they think is misinformation being spread.

In my real life, I've heard more instances where trans people got called "followers of Satan", than I've heard of people getting called extremists. 

pokoko said:

An online friend of mine switched from "he" to "her".  One day I accidently used "he" in reference to them because we were previously talking about something that happened long before they made the change.  I didn't even notice it, to be honest.  In real life, this happens quite often and people usually joke about it.  Not in this case.  They got angry and guilt tripped me immediately, with "I can't believe you'd turn on me like that" kind of comments and said that I was no different from the other haters.  They wouldn't even say what they were mad about at first.

Sorry that happened from a genuine mistake. 

But frankly this feels kind of shallow to me. People can get upset about literally anything. I've seen people explode far worse, from being asked to tag spoilers. But also, the fact that you're complaining about it makes it feel a lot less genuine.

Some people are always going to be sensitive about anything.

I would expect more people to be understanding if they believe it to be a genuine mistake.



curl-6 said:

If you're going to try selling a multimillion dollar video game, it turns out it's inadvisable to be deliberately contemptuous and exclusionary towards a large portion of your potential audience.
The devs were so focused on trying to fight a culture war that they forgot to actually create an appealing video game.

Were they? I had no clue that there was anything even remotely political about the game, until well after I heard it bombed.

I doubt most of the people complaining about pronouns, were even aware the game had them before it came out.

People were checked out the game when the trailer was shown off, several months ago. 



the-pi-guy said:
curl-6 said:

If you're going to try selling a multimillion dollar video game, it turns out it's inadvisable to be deliberately contemptuous and exclusionary towards a large portion of your potential audience.
The devs were so focused on trying to fight a culture war that they forgot to actually create an appealing video game.

Were they? I had no clue that there was anything even remotely political about the game, until well after I heard it bombed.

I doubt most of the people complaining about pronouns, were even aware the game had them before it came out.

People were checked out the game when the trailer was shown off, several months ago. 

I was referring more to the way the game went out of its way to not have any white male characters, and to purge any beauty or sexiness from its female cast because in the eyes of the activist left straight male sexuality = evil.

Add in the lead character designer's comments and it very much feels like the game was pushing to score points in the culture war rather than just trying to make a game that everyone could enjoy.



curl-6 said:
the-pi-guy said:

Were they? I had no clue that there was anything even remotely political about the game, until well after I heard it bombed.

I doubt most of the people complaining about pronouns, were even aware the game had them before it came out.

People were checked out the game when the trailer was shown off, several months ago. 

I was referring more to the way the game went out of its way to not have any white male characters, and to purge any beauty or sexiness from its female cast because in the eyes of the activist left straight male sexuality = evil.

Add in the lead character designer's comments and it very much feels like the game was pushing to score points in the culture war rather than just trying to make a game that everyone could enjoy.

There is a white male character:

And I don't feel this character is particularly ugly. 



the-pi-guy said:
curl-6 said:

I was referring more to the way the game went out of its way to not have any white male characters, and to purge any beauty or sexiness from its female cast because in the eyes of the activist left straight male sexuality = evil.

Add in the lead character designer's comments and it very much feels like the game was pushing to score points in the culture war rather than just trying to make a game that everyone could enjoy.

There is a white male character:

And I don't feel this character is particularly ugly. 

That guy seems to be Hispanic based his name. (Teo)

Still though, let's include him for the sake of argument; the game's roster does seem weighted in favour of certain groups. On its own that's not big deal, but in the context of the lead character designer's comments it does feel like he had an axe to grind.

Haymar isn't ugly, that's a fair point, but she's the only character out of 16 that's not horrendous. And they still made sure to cover her entirely from the face down in a shapeless robe. Again, nothing inherently wrong with that, but the notion that female characters being sexy is bad is very much a leftist culture war talking point.