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Forums - Politics Discussion - 2024 US Presidential Election

Just read a NPR article. 55% support 10k forgiveness, which I assume means 45% do not. I would avoid talking about something that almost half the country doesn't agree with.



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Chrkeller said:

Just read a NPR article. 55% support 10k forgiveness, which I assume means 45% do not. I would avoid talking about something that almost half the country doesn't agree with.

That's too bad. If Biden forgave the 20k debt as promised I probably would have paid off the rest of my debt and my mother's debt (30k+) in one fell swoop. Being debt free for us would have been nice.

At present, I am content with staying in Japan and paying nothing. The federal government would probably misuse my $ anyways.



Chrkeller said:
burninmylight said:

And get back to focusing on eliminating student loan debt. That was a gamechanger for me and millions of others, and I kept saying that if Biden can eliminate mine, he can do whatever he wants after that, he has my vote. I talked to a friend last weekend who said his quality of life got better by magnitudes after his student loan debt was removed from his credit history. I wasn't even aware of that aspect of it.

In fact, if I'm Biden, I'm going scorched earth and eliminating it on my way out as a leg up for the Dems in terms of PR (I know he gave it a half-ass try already, but what does he have to lose at this point?), and while everyone is distracted, pardoning Hunter's crimes, lol

The republican counter point that Biden was buying votes wasn't far off?

Personally I would stay away from debt forgiveness, a bunch of people don't like it, including myself.

What don't you like about debt forgiveness?

As someone living in a country where it's not only tuition free to go to college, but you even get PAID for doing so (not a lot, but getting $300 per month sure beats having to pay tuition), tuition costs in USA generally look crazy to me.

People being riddled with debt for decades when they should start earning and saving money to build their life. Especially in a country where you also have insane medical costs, adding an extra layer to an already absurd situation.

The nay-sayers I've heard from are the ones that are upset because they had to pay.
But punishing others isn't going to help.



Hiku said:
Chrkeller said:

The republican counter point that Biden was buying votes wasn't far off?

Personally I would stay away from debt forgiveness, a bunch of people don't like it, including myself.

What don't you like about debt forgiveness?

As someone living in a country where it's not only tuition free to go to college, but you even get PAID for doing so (not a lot, but getting $300 per month sure beats having to pay tuition), tuition costs in USA generally look crazy to me.

People being riddled with debt for decades when they should start earning and saving money to build their life. Especially in a country where you also have insane medical costs, adding an extra layer to an already absurd situation.

The nay-sayers I've heard from are the ones that are upset because they had to pay.
But punishing others isn't going to help.

I don't think it fixes the full issues.  There are a lot of fraudulent online "universities" that need to be shut down.  And there are too many worthless degrees.  I also think state schools (e.g. public) need to have caps on tuition increase.  The final piece, based on state schools, is 60 to 70% isn't tuition but housing.

If a boat is leaking, bailing water doesn't fix the problem.  Debt forgiveness isn't a comprehensive fix.  

Edit

And yes I was straddled with debt and paid it off, and that plays a role.  And I have 429a accounts for my kids.  So yeah, how many degrees do I need to pay for?  I've already paid for three.  

Edit 2

I also think the US needs to drop the "everyone needs to go to college."  We are under utilizing trades.  I got a buddy who does autobody work and is a 6 figure earner.  There are other paths than college and we should be better cascading that understanding.

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 25 July 2024

Chrkeller said:

Just read a NPR article. 55% support 10k forgiveness, which I assume means 45% do not. I would avoid talking about something that almost half the country doesn't agree with.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/26/canceling-student-loan-debt-a-key-issue-ahead-of-election-survey.html

48% say cancelling student debt is important but broken down by demographic, 70% of Gen Z, 72% of black & 68% of Hispanic people agree with it.

So overall it’s a very mixed topic but when looking at various demographics that traditionally vote Democrat it’s very popular.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
Chrkeller said:

Just read a NPR article. 55% support 10k forgiveness, which I assume means 45% do not. I would avoid talking about something that almost half the country doesn't agree with.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/26/canceling-student-loan-debt-a-key-issue-ahead-of-election-survey.html

48% say cancelling student debt is important but broken down by demographic, 70% of Gen Z, 72% of black & 68% of Hispanic people agree with it.

So overall it’s a very mixed topic but when looking at various demographics that traditionally vote Democrat it’s very popular.

Exactly and Democrats aren't voting Trump.  The focus needs to be the middle aisle and independents.  Democrats don't need motivation to vote against Trump.



Chrkeller said:
Hiku said:

What don't you like about debt forgiveness?

As someone living in a country where it's not only tuition free to go to college, but you even get PAID for doing so (not a lot, but getting $300 per month sure beats having to pay tuition), tuition costs in USA generally look crazy to me.

People being riddled with debt for decades when they should start earning and saving money to build their life. Especially in a country where you also have insane medical costs, adding an extra layer to an already absurd situation.

The nay-sayers I've heard from are the ones that are upset because they had to pay.
But punishing others isn't going to help.

I don't think it fixes the full issues.  There are a lot of fraudulent online "universities" that need to be shut down.  And there are too many worthless degrees.  I also think state schools (e.g. public) need to have caps on tuition increase.  The final piece, based on state schools, is 60 to 70% isn't tuition but housing.

If a boat is leaking, bailing water doesn't fix the problem.  Debt forgiveness isn't a comprehensive fix.  

Edit

And yes I was straddled with debt and paid it off, and that plays a role.  And I have 429a accounts for my kids.  So yeah, how many degrees do I need to pay for?  I've already paid for three.  

Edit 2

I also think the US needs to drop the "everyone needs to go to college."  We are under utilizing trades.  I got a buddy who does autobody work and is a 6 figure earner.  There are other paths than college and we should be better cascading that understanding.

I agree with most of that, in that it doesn't solve the underlying problems.
But I would only be against this bandaid of a solution if it was between it and another (better) alternative.

But if it's between forgiveness or no alternative, I'd chose the former.

Last edited by Hiku - on 25 July 2024

Chrkeller said:

Just read a NPR article. 55% support 10k forgiveness, which I assume means 45% do not. I would avoid talking about something that almost half the country doesn't agree with.

To be fair, 40% like Trump.

There's so much polarization today, that nothing would get done if we avoided anything that was 50/50.  



Chrkeller said:
zorg1000 said:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/03/26/canceling-student-loan-debt-a-key-issue-ahead-of-election-survey.html

48% say cancelling student debt is important but broken down by demographically, 70% of Gen Z, 72% of black & 68% of Hispanic people agree with it.

So overall it’s a very mixed topic but when looking at various demographics that traditionally vote Democrat it’s very popular.

Exactly and Democrats aren't voting Trump.  The focus needs to be the middle aisle and independents.  Democrats don't need motivation to vote against Trump.

But recent polls have shown that these demographics have been trending right in the last couple years, wouldn’t this in theory help stop them from continuing to bleed off?

https://www.dataforprogress.org/blog/2023/9/28/a-majority-of-voters-with-student-loan-debt-are-not-confident-they-can-make-their-monthly-payments

Loan forgiveness is mixed but the SAVE Plan is strongly or somewhat supported by basically every group.

72% overall

80% democrats

72% independent/3rd party

63% republicans

76% female

68% male

75% under 45

71% over 45

69% no college

77% college

69% black

73% white

73% latino

75% past borrower

67% never borrower

84% current borrower

You know what? After reading that, I actually agree with you now. The message shouldn’t be about forgiving debt because to a lot of people that sounds unearned, it should be about promoting the SAVE Plan and talk about making student repayment more fair.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

the-pi-guy said:
Chrkeller said:

Just read a NPR article. 55% support 10k forgiveness, which I assume means 45% do not. I would avoid talking about something that almost half the country doesn't agree with.

To be fair, 40% like Trump.

There's so much polarization today, that nothing would get done if we avoided anything that was 50/50.  

I wouldn't avoid doing something, I'm saying I wouldn't use it as a talking point.  2 to 3% sway in a few states easily could determine the election.  Once the election is over, that is something else.