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Forums - Politics Discussion - Biden vs Trump 2024 Political Platforms, Policies and Issues

PortisheadBiscuit said:

So, this Project 2025 thing, anyone alarmed? Lol

Not American but it still alarms me, I think Trump didn't really have a plan first time around, he's an idiot, an evil one but still an idiot, this time around he'll be more prepared and have people around him who have been planning changes for years, I worry for America's democracy if Trump wins again, I worry how LGBTQ+ people will be vilified, about women's rights being further eroded, about European security being further weakened and Ukrainians thrown to their deaths, I'm not America but it doesn't mean I don't give a shit about anyone outside my country, Lol.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 24 June 2024

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the-pi-guy said:

I think people do care about messaging, but I think people care more about events. People care about the economy and abortion rights. 

A lot of people care about Ukraine and Palestine.

Which of these things will push people over.

Foreign policy tends to rank low in the things people care about when it comes to an election doesn't it? If Trump wins, I believe it will almost entirely be down to the economy/cost of living but I'm still leaning towards a Biden win despite what some polls are saying, I'll worry when we're a month or two from election.

Biden needs to focus on bringing cost of living down, the Republicans don't exactly have a good attack angle for immigration anymore, like what? The Democrats are letting immigrants flood into our country! Okay, it was the Republicans who blocked the border bill based on orders from Trump, Lol. Need to make sure everyone knows who is to blame for ripping away women's bodily rights too.



Ryuu96 said:

Foreign policy tends to rank low in the things people care about when it comes to an election doesn't it? If Trump wins, I believe it will almost entirely be down to the economy/cost of living but I'm still leaning towards a Biden win despite what some polls are saying, I'll worry when we're a month or two from election.

Biden needs to focus on bringing cost of living down, the Republicans don't exactly have a good attack angle for immigration anymore, like what? The Democrats are letting immigrants flood into our country! Okay, it was the Republicans who blocked the border bill based on orders from Trump, Lol. Need to make sure everyone knows who is to blame for ripping away women's bodily rights too.

Economy and abortion are pretty high on the list.

LGBT rights.

Foreign policy affects some people's votes. Some people are talking about not voting for Biden because of Palestine. 



LegitHyperbole said:

If I were American I'd vote on whichever one stops WW3 or at least delays it/tries to prevent it. Biden to me seems like an accelerationist (or him party cause he is certainly not in control) but that's just me. Really wish you lot had more to choose from than these two gobshites another time around.

What does this mean exactly? 

If a dictator or a terrorist is threatening WW3, you think we should be giving into all their demands, regardless of what they are?



the-pi-guy said:
LegitHyperbole said:

If I were American I'd vote on whichever one stops WW3 or at least delays it/tries to prevent it. Biden to me seems like an accelerationist (or him party cause he is certainly not in control) but that's just me. Really wish you lot had more to choose from than these two gobshites another time around.

What does this mean exactly? 

If a dictator or a terrorist is threatening WW3, you think we should be giving into all their demands, regardless of what they are?

Whoa, I haven't been straw manned so badly in a while. Hold your horses. I'm simply saying one is the lesser evil, I made no comment on Trumps policy. Both options are a disaster anyway. 



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As stated above by other folks I am concerned with the economy, global affairs (preventing Russia from taking over Europe, Israeli/Palestine conflict etc.), woman's rights, LGBT rights, wage growth, student loan debt AND.... EDUCATION! Trump is only where he is because of a decades old attack on knowledge, facts and critical thinking. For all of these things listed I trust Biden over Trump. I want people to start knowing things again or at the very least I want people to apply critical thinking and not just the latest fear based reasoning spun up by cable news. I am voting for the person who makes it sounds like we can solve problems instead of the person who always plays the victim, always claims everything is rigged, always has a grudge again some phantom boogieman that that you have to get retribution against to make up your own criminal activity.



LegitHyperbole said:
the-pi-guy said:

What does this mean exactly? 

If a dictator or a terrorist is threatening WW3, you think we should be giving into all their demands, regardless of what they are?

Whoa, I haven't been straw manned so badly in a while. Hold your horses. I'm simply saying one is the lesser evil, I made no comment on Trumps policy. Both options are a disaster anyway. 

How exactly will Biden bring us closer to war than Trump? The same Trump who said he would encourage Russia to "do whatever the hell it wants" to America's apparent allies. Trump's foreign policy on Israel vs Palestine will be just as bad and very likely worse than Bidens and his foreign policy on Russia would be to abandon Ukraine to their deaths and America's European allies.

There's a far, far, bigger chance of a world war breaking out due to Russia vs Ukraine than Israel vs Palestine (which I'd say the odds there are slim to none) but as we've been shown repeatedly throughout history, appeasement does not work against fascist imperialist, rolling over like a cowardly dog and saying "Take whatever you want! We're too afraid to stand up to you!" only encourages the imperialist country (and others like it) to indeed take whatever they want because nobody will stand up to them and stop them.

Germany and Japan went from one victory to another, grabbing land all over and showed no signs of slowing down, it was only until countries united and stood against them that they were actually stopped. Russia has completely fucked up its initial invasion goals and that's without NATO being involved, the best option to stop Russia would be to help Ukraine defeat them now and not allow a heavily militarised, war economy mode Russia to grow stronger and turn into a country who only knows war, they must be defeated now and not allowed to grow because that will make them hungry for more, that will make them even more confident that they can take more.

Russia does not want a world war despite the hundreds of threats they throw at us but if they think that they could take, lets say Latvia, without anyone standing up to them, they absolutely will push their luck and try that, which is why we need to show a united and firm stance to show Russia where the redline is and that we will not let them just take whatever they want.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 24 June 2024

LegitHyperbole said:

Whoa, I haven't been straw manned so badly in a while. Hold your horses. I'm simply saying one is the lesser evil, I made no comment on Trumps policy. Both options are a disaster anyway. 

I don't think it was particularly a straw man given what you were arguing. Especially since I was just asking you two questions so you could clarify whether that was truly your position. 

You claimed that Biden seemed like an accelerationist, towards WW3.  Based on what? 

The only thing that particularly makes sense to me is with regards to Russia. China and Palestine, Trump is going to have similar or likely worse policies. 

If that is the case, (I asked so you could clarify if that was your concern), then based on my understanding of the Russian invasion, you must view that giving into the demands of Putin and letting him invade Ukraine is preferred to maybe Putin starting WW3. In which case, I would like to know where the line is for you, when it starts to make sense to defend ourselves from Russia? 

What happens if Russia wants even more afterwards? Do we let them have whatever they demand, because it seems like the "lesser evil".

Last edited by the-pi-guy - on 24 June 2024

the-pi-guy said:

I think people do care about messaging, but I think people care more about events. People care about the economy and abortion rights. 

A lot of people care about Ukraine and Palestine.

Which of these things will push people over.

It’s both, you need strong messaging to inform people of what you have done and plan to do.

Democrats have a disadvantage in the fact that they aren’t a cult with a unified propaganda machine & believe every word their messiah says without question.

Trump can go out and just blatantly lie about anything and right wing media will echo it and his supporters will lap it up.

Biden doesn’t have that luxury, he actually has to convey a coherent set of accomplishments and future goals and when his base doesn’t like how he’s handling something, they will let that be known (i.e. Gaza).

Also, a lot of progressives seem to have a hard accepting victories in general and let “perfect be the enemy of good”. Instead of celebrating small steps in the right direction, they often want an issue to be fixed entirely and anything short of that is a failure.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

the-pi-guy said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Whoa, I haven't been straw manned so badly in a while. Hold your horses. I'm simply saying one is the lesser evil, I made no comment on Trumps policy. Both options are a disaster anyway. 

I don't think it was particularly a straw man given what you were arguing. Especially since I was just asking you two questions so you could clarify whether that was truly your position. 

You claimed that Biden seemed like an accelerationist, towards WW3.  Based on what? 

The only thing that particularly makes sense to me is with regards to Russia. China and Palestine, Trump is going to have similar or likely worse policies. 

If that is the case, (I asked so you could clarify if that was your concern), then based on my understanding of the Russian invasion, you must view that giving into the demands of Putin and letting him invade Ukraine is preferred to maybe Putin starting WW3. In which case, I would like to know where the line is for you, when it starts to make sense to defend ourselves from Russia? 

What happens if Russia wants even more afterwards? Do we let them have whatever they demand, because it seems like the "lesser evil".

I dunno to be honest. I'm just reminded of why I stay away from politics forums, don't need the stress of having to have opinions on things. I don't really care for it.