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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 10 July 2024

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Ryuu96 said:
shavenferret said:

Hopefully Ukraine will be able to protect those incoming F-16s.............. they'll be a game changer eventually if they have a good plan in place to keep the planes secure.

They're going to have to be on the move non-stop and will need a ton of AD covering them which means less for civilians, plus Ukraine doesn't have many runways suitable for them, if NATO grew some balls and put troops into Western Ukraine then they could protect them or let them take-off from NATO countries the same way Russia used Belarus as a staging post because they knew Ukraine wouldn't attack them.

Agree, but that is too much common sense to let them take off from a NATO country.

Would love to see if Russia had the balls to attack an airfield in a NATO country.



 

 

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Ryuu96 said:
shavenferret said:

great news.  Would you know how many Patriot systems they would have?  It's gotta be more than the dozen that they had b4 the mass influx of aid this year, perhaps 20 systems?

I think you're confusing launchers with batteries, Ukraine has 3 Patriot Batteries from Germany, 2 from America (not sure if the 2nd has arrived yet). Batteries are the whole component, which is a radar, control station, power generator and launchers, typically 6-8 launchers per battery. Ukraine has ~5 batteries, will probably have ~10 if these 3 additional Patriots are entire batteries.

Ok,  yeah..... what you are calling a launcher, I am calling a system.  But answered question so thanks much.  



Cobretti2 said:
Ryuu96 said:

They're going to have to be on the move non-stop and will need a ton of AD covering them which means less for civilians, plus Ukraine doesn't have many runways suitable for them, if NATO grew some balls and put troops into Western Ukraine then they could protect them or let them take-off from NATO countries the same way Russia used Belarus as a staging post because they knew Ukraine wouldn't attack them.

Agree, but that is too much common sense to let them take off from a NATO country.

Would love to see if Russia had the balls to attack an airfield in a NATO country.

What Ryuu said, and i'm also hoping that they can be staged (not just stored) from Poland.  That would help tremendously.  



The U.S. and an array of other NATO allies will send Ukraine dozens of air defense systems in the coming months, including at least four of the powerful Patriot systems that Kyiv has been desperately seeking to help fight off Russian advances in the war, according to a new joint agreement.

President Joe Biden announced the broader commitment when he spoke Tuesday at the opening of the NATO summit in Washington.

According to the statement, the U.S., Germany and Romania will send Ukraine additional Patriot batteries, while the Netherlands and others will provide Patriot components to make up one more battery. Italy will provide a SAMP-T air defense system.

Other allies, including Canada, Norway, Spain and the United Kingdom, will provide a number of other systems that will help Ukraine expand its coverage. Those systems include NASAMS, HAWKs, IRIS T-SLM, IRIS T-SLS and Gepards. And other nations have agreed to provide munitions for those systems.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in a social media post on Tuesday, made it clear that air defense is still his country's key request, and he has repeatedly asked for more Patriot systems.

“We are fighting for more air defense systems for Ukraine, and I’m confident we will succeed,” he said. “We are also striving to secure more aircraft, including F-16s. Additionally, we are pushing for enhanced security guarantees for Ukraine, including weapons, financial aid, and political support.”

Earlier this year, he said Ukraine urgently needs seven more Patriot batteries to fend off Russian strikes against the power grid, the military and civilian areas using destructive glide bombs.

The Patriot systems, he said, would help prevent Russian aircraft from flying close enough to drop the glide bombs on civilians and critical infrastructure. He said Russia had been firing 3,000 bombs into his country each month.

The commitment for new air defense systems comes as Russia continues its relentless bombardment of Ukraine, including a massive barrage that struck a children’s hospital in Kyiv on Monday and killed at least 42 people.
03:38

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On Tuesday, Zelensky urged “decisive actions" from the U.S. and Europe to strengthen his troops and vowed to do everything possible to defeat Russia.

The United States has already sent Ukraine two Patriot missile systems — one late last year and, according to U.S. officials, another last month. And Romania’s top defense body said late last month that the country would donate a Patriot missile system to neighboring Ukraine.

A number of European allies have been reluctant to part with their air defense systems, as they worry about possible threats from Russia as well.

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin two years ago set up a coalition of more than 50 countries to help gather and coordinate contributions of weapons and training to Ukraine.



https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240709-nato-members-pledge-dozens-of-air-defence-systems-to-ukraine



Ryuu96 said:

To be fair, those chips are in thousands of appliances, from coffee makers and fridges to cars and all the way to electrical subsystems in buildings. Many of those chips don't even need clean room conditions to be built (Pretty sure none has a smaller lithography than 500nm) and could just as well be sourced elsewhere, and even if the west would completely stop deliveries of those chips they could still build tens of thousands of rockets from just harvesting home appliances for them.

Ryuu96 said:

Should have served a Molotov cocktail and a cigar as digestive



The US responded to the proposal to shoot down Russian missiles from Polish territory, emphasizing that escalation would not be beneficial for Ukraine, Poland, or anyone else.

White House national security spokesman John Kirby stated that while they want to support Ukraine effectively, they do not want to escalate the conflict, and it is up to the Polish government to determine and comment on its self-defense procedures.

=

Yes, it's up to Poland, so shut the fuck up.

I feel like every-time something positive happens, like a NATO meeting where we're meant to be showing unity, America always pops in with a comment equivalent to them pissing themselves and making NATO look weaker, America like some crying kid lecturing us not to upset Russia.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 10 July 2024