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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint



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The Wagner Group purportedly has a number of troops stationed in various African countries, including the Central African Republic, where it has shored up mining operations in recent years. Profits from mineral extractions in Africa are likely used to fund illicit Russian state-sponsored activity and to provide resources for Russia's war on Ukraine, U.S. officials have said in the past.

"Washington does not want to appear to be taking sides," an individual familiar with the plans told the WSJ.

According to an unnamed official who spoke with the WSJ, the State Department had previously intended to announce new sanctions against the mercenary group for its gold mining activities in Africa.

U.S. to Delay New Sanctions on Wagner for Fear of Siding With Putin

Lol. This is fucking dumb, taking sides? Ukraine is killing them both with weapons we're supplying, if you're worried about "taking sides" then slap some extra sanctions on Russia too



Well finally caught up.

I don't think even Bollywood could have written such an unrealistic set of events and we have seen plenty of good ones from them lol.



 

 

Ryuu96 said:

The Wagner Group purportedly has a number of troops stationed in various African countries, including the Central African Republic, where it has shored up mining operations in recent years. Profits from mineral extractions in Africa are likely used to fund illicit Russian state-sponsored activity and to provide resources for Russia's war on Ukraine, U.S. officials have said in the past.

"Washington does not want to appear to be taking sides," an individual familiar with the plans told the WSJ.

According to an unnamed official who spoke with the WSJ, the State Department had previously intended to announce new sanctions against the mercenary group for its gold mining activities in Africa.

U.S. to Delay New Sanctions on Wagner for Fear of Siding With Putin

Lol. This is fucking dumb, taking sides? Ukraine is killing them both with weapons we're supplying, if you're worried about "taking sides" then slap some extra sanctions on Russia too

Better yet, find a way to slap Russian troops hard enough that it's basically a bludgeoning.



Well this turn out to be a disappointment, literally after I made my previous comment the Russian infighting stopped :-p



Proud to be a Californian.

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darkenergy said:

Well this turn out to be a disappointment, literally after I made my previous comment the Russian infighting stopped :-p

It's pretty much the worst outcome for Ukrania.

Wagner is moving to Belarus now. i have no doubt they will (soon?) start an attack from Belarus some day, opening up a second (third) front in the north. I really doubt Lukashenko is happy with Wagners on his territory, anyways.



drkohler said:
darkenergy said:

Well this turn out to be a disappointment, literally after I made my previous comment the Russian infighting stopped :-p

It's pretty much the worst outcome for Ukrania.

Wagner is moving to Belarus now. i have no doubt they will (soon?) start an attack from Belarus some day, opening up a second (third) front in the north. I really doubt Lukashenko is happy with Wagners on his territory, anyways.

You really jump to doom and gloom too often, Lol.

At worst it's a minor improvement for Ukraine, at best it will cause problems for Putin in the future.

Russia lost multiple military helicopters, a very expensive military plane, multiple valuable Russian pilots, an oil depot, logistics set back by a day, Putin suffered his first ever crack in his entire presidency and shown to his allies and enemies both domestically and internationally just how weak he is now. Meanwhile Ukraine didn't lift a finger.

If you think Wagner attacked Moscow so they could be moved to Belarus and attack Ukraine from the North then I don't know what to say.

For starters, if Wagner wanted to move to Belarus to attack Ukraine from the North, they could have done so at any-point they wanted to, Lukashenko wasn't stopping that, Putin wasn't stopping that, there are already thousands of Russian troops stationed in Belarus. They didn't attack Moscow for some elaborate plot to be moved to Belarus, Lol.

Secondly, Wagner was already involved in the 1st push against Kyiv, look at where that got them and Russia, fucking slaughtered. God I HOPE they try to attack Kyiv again, it would be the dumbest move they could possibly pull. They couldn't do it when Kyiv was unprepared and far less fortified, now Kyiv is like a fucking fortress, it would be absolutely idiotic to attack Kyiv again, Russia simply doesn't have the capability anymore.

A large chunk of the North of Ukraine is protected by a massive marshland too, leaving the only viable routes into the country via road and Ukraine has already either completely destroyed those roads or heavily mined them. Russia won't be able to use any aircraft to help a push North because Kyiv is absolutely jam packed with AA now.

It took Wagner 9 months to take the tiny city of Bakhmut using their full force, losing thousands of Wagnerites and they could only take it by artillery bombing the city to nothing. Kyiv is A LOT bigger than Bakhmut, A LOT more fortified than Bakhmut, A LOT more defended than Bakhmut. They want to make a move on Kyiv then fine, at the rate it took them to take Bakhmut, it would take them 15 years to take Kyiv.

Lukashenko was literally the one who set up this deal, it sounds like he saved Putin's ass, he is a long-term friend with Prigozhin.

If Prigozhin is taking his forces to Belarus (maybe? it hasn't been confirmed yet), it'll more likely be to be Lukashenko's private army and continue their other operations but now outside of Russia because there's really no viable way that Prigozhin could continue to operate inside of Russia. Now Prigozhin gets out of having to hand over Wagner to Russia MoD as well.

I really think people overestimate how much Prigozhin cares about Ukraine. Prigozhin is a businessman, I don't believe he had any aspirations for political leadership, he isn't driven by ideology like Putin is, he is driven by money. They were only in Ukraine so they could get paid (and taking cities had an extra price attached to it).

It took 9 months, thousands of dead soldiers, to take a tiny city, and literally the moment they took it they couldn't wait to fuck off out of there and didn't show up anywhere else. Prigozhin was instantly talking about leaving Ukraine. What measly amount did Russia pay them for taking Bakmut I wonder? Was the effort worth the cost?

Prigozhin rants a lot on Telegram and I think most of it is to recruit Russian nationalists, Prigozhin had zero political power and he only existed in Telegram for Russians, I think half of his rants on Telegram were him bullshitting to cause defections to Wagner to bolster his own PMC and by doing that you make Shoigu and Gerasimov the enemy but they're both just fall guys.

He has said a lot, it's hard to shift the bullshit from his genuine opinions. He has said that Ukraine's military is very powerful whilst Russia's is poorly led, that the war is essentially a lost cause, that Russia isn't trying hard enough (Lol), that Ukraine and NATO were never going to attack Russia and that Putin essentially lied to everyone. All his rants have one thing in common, making his Wagner force more desirable to defect to.

Imo, I wonder if Prigozhin just wants out of Ukraine, he isn't as delusional as Putin, he knows they can't win, they'll be in an endless war costing thousands of lives and a heavily sanctioned Russia struggling to pay its troops and PMCs. What is the financial incentive in it for Prigozhin? Wagner makes the VAST majority of its money by terrorising African nations and that comes FAR easier than Ukraine.

Wagner barely has to lift a finger in these African countries, they're losing FAR less soldiers and making FAR more money, their African exploits have practically made Wagner a self-sustainable PMC. They don't need Russia's funding, they needed Russia's protection, but the contract on July 1st was threatening to take that all away and take Prigozhin's money machine from him.

If I'm wrong and Prigozhin is pulling Wagner to attack from the North then he's even dumber than Shoigu and Gerasimov.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 25 June 2023



Putin has suffered “a mortal blow,” - a retired US Army Brig. Gen. Peter Zwack.

“There are 2 existential fights going on in this Russia-Ukraine war,” he said.

“One is the viability of the survival, the existence, of a free-minded 🇺🇦 state. The other is inside the Kremlin and the viability of the Putin regime.”

What (Prigozhin) has done is divided the Russians, got them squabbling publicly… This I believe is a mortal blow to Putin and his regime.” - CNN



It's telling that Russia has basically no army left to defend itself internally, they're all in Ukraine.

Would be the perfect time for mass riots but like that'll happen with the placated Russian population.