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Forums - Politics Discussion - Russia and Ukraine flashpoint

Ryuu96 said:
crissindahouse said:

According to Oryx, Ukraine lost 4 Leopard 2 already and 3 of them of the better A6 of which they only got so few...all close together like how Russia lost theirs always with one big artillery strike. Seriously...

Some more maybe damaged, who knows. So like 10% already out of service with one big strike. 

Where are you seeing this? Oryx only lists two Leopard tanks lost.

Attrition In Action: List Of Ukrainian Army Equipment Not Yet Destroyed By Russia - Oryx

And the 2A4/2A6 are in different locations.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html

well, they have two as "abandoned" but not sure if they still work and if Ukraine did get them back. 

And when I look at one of the the pictures I'm not sure if that is really necessary. If it was mines maybe you shouldn't drive one after the next in one (we laughed about Russians doing that) and if it was artillery strikes then they are also too close together.



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crissindahouse said:
Ryuu96 said:

Where are you seeing this? Oryx only lists two Leopard tanks lost.

Attrition In Action: List Of Ukrainian Army Equipment Not Yet Destroyed By Russia - Oryx

And the 2A4/2A6 are in different locations.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html

well, they have two as "abandoned" but not sure if they still work and if Ukraine did get them back. 

Yeah, Idk.

More importantly the crew got out alive, whether they get them back or not, Idk. The one in the 2nd image doesn't even look damaged to me.

It's a no mans land so Russia ain't collecting so it depends on if Russia can send a drone or artillery strike it to finish them off.

Here is one which was damaged by hitting a mine but was recovered by Ukraine, only had minor damage and was later fixed on the field by replacing the tracks.

Biggest obstacle is all the fucking mines, the mines don't seem like they can kill the crew of the tanks or even blow the tank up but they're enough to disable it, alert Russian forces who then artillery bomb the field and that does finish the tank off.



Just crazy to see one Leo 2 and 4 Bradley in one picture. I'm not an expert but not sure if losing so much of their best equipment on one place was necessary.



crissindahouse said:

Just crazy to see one Leo 2 and 4 Bradley in one picture. I'm not an expert but not sure if losing so much of their best equipment on one place was necessary.

You'll have to get used to seeing this sight, unfortunately.

Mala Tokmachka (one of those videos with the large column) is controlled by Ukraine. They didn't even reach the battlefield before being struck by artillery. The larger issue was not spotting the drone and shutting down the enemy artillery but you're going to see groupings like this a lot, they need to be in decent sized armoured groups to assault extremely well fortified positions, that is combined arms.

If they're spotted before then well unfortunately artillery will rain down upon them. If they spread too far apart then they'll be picked off easily and won't be able to recover anything, they won't be able to overwhelm Russian positions. Large losses like this will be unavoidable without air dominance. This won't be the first time we see groups like this destroyed.

Difference between this and the Russian column is the Russian column was so frigging massive it got them stuck in a traffic jam and it was over a very easy to spot road rather than hugging the treelines, they were doing this everywhere and in territory they didn't yet clear of enemies so Ukrainian soldiers were still around and picking them off with ATGMs. 

Ukraine began this movement and amassed the forces in Ukrainian controlled territory but unfortunately got struck before they even reached the battlefield, I don't know if they missed a mine or were spotted by artillery first. The video does explain that they went back, de-mined the area and then advanced forward.

It's 1-2 Tanks destroyed and 4 Bradley's out of 100+. Ukraine will lose stuff, it's inevitable, they'll lose a lot of it. Tanks and Bradleys aren't immune to Artillery. They need Tanks and Bradleys together for Combined Arms. Whether they were in a line or spread out a tiny bit, Artillery rains down on pretty much the whole area, it probably wouldn't have made a difference.

MBTs are frontlines and some mines will be missed. Russia has a shit ton of Artillery left. Look back at Kherson where Ukraine lost a few vehicles and everyone lost their minds and deemed the offensive a failure and then 2 months later Russia retreated under pressure, these conditions are a lot worse and harder to navigate their vehicles in.

Meanwhile Ukraine destroys dozen of Russian tanks per day, Lol.



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Remain calm, Ukraine will continue the grind, they have a lot of equipment, USA says they have more armoured vehicles than Russia now on the battlefield.

The West can get off its ass and replace the MBT losses pretty easy if they wanted to as well.

^ Take this advance, Lol.

The U.S. still lost Bradleys and a few Abrams during Desert Storm and that was with a two week air campaign and a flawless execution of strategy. It's war, losses happen, especially during an offensive against heavily fortified positions, Russia has to replenish its own stock while heavily sanctioned and Ukraine is being fed deliveries by Western nations, they'll theoretically be fine.

If they lose all the tanks and make no progress then we can worry, although they're already making some small progress across the front.

Ukraine has had 575 Tanks Delivered, 40+ AFVs Delivered, 500 IFVs Delivered (109 Bradleys). 1180 APC's Delivered thus far across the war.

Last edited by Ryuu96 - on 09 June 2023



@crissindahouse 



The most important thing I'm taking away here is the tank crews survived, a tank can always be replaced, a soldier can't.

The tanks are doing their job in protecting their crews at least. And the tank operator will get another chance in another tank.



Russia reusing same destroyed column in different angles to look like new victories - PStyleOne1 on Twitter: