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Forums - Sales Discussion - The Road to 160m+ for Nintendo Switch

HyrulianScrolls said:

I also strongly disagree MP4 can’t breakout of a Metroid’s sales pattern with a real “wow” factor game. It doesn’t need to be open world. Just make it a kickass FPS Metroidvania with graphics and performance on a level never seen before on a Nintendo console. Maybe throw in a multiplayer component that is compelling to showcase what will hopefully be a way better online infrastructure for Switch 2. Boom, possible 10m LT seller.

Especially if Switch 2 has a successful launch. And no I’m not saying they should rely on MP4 for that. Something like Mario Kart 9 would make sense as the system seller, while MP4 rides the hype and momentum train thanks to killer word of mouth.  

Agreed, if Retro Studios is able to make a FUN, game with wonderful things that make it amazing. And local & Online multiplayer. It can sell a couple million very easily.

Nintendo will most likely not be releasing Mario Kart X (so rumors call it) as the launch title. It will most likely be a 3D Mario Adventure, with some other titles of course. Then within a couple of months they will release Mario Kart X. That way they can capitalize on each major game Nintendo has planned for the NG. If you put too many games togehter, a couple will get lost, and not receive the deserved attention and spending.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.

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HyrulianScrolls said:
zorg1000 said:

A game can be a hardware showcase while also being on a previous generation device. PS5/XSX are three years old and only have a handful of AAA titles that aren’t on PS4/XBO, many of their best looking games are cross-gen or updated ports.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if some of those PS5/XSX exclusives could run on PS4/XBO and they just chose to make them exclusive. For example, after seeing God of War: Ragnarok & Horizon: Forbidden West on PS4, I have a hard time believing Spider-Man 2 couldn’t also been on PS4 if they wanted it to be.

Metroid Prime 4 can absolutely be a hardware showcase for Switch 2 even with a Switch 1 version. Higher resolution, higher/more stable frame rate, faster load times, better lighting/particle effects, etc. This is basically what most PS5/XBX games offer over their PS4/XBO versions.

Literally my whole argument has been that Switch 2 is not remotely comparable to the cross gen examples you’re using. It’s going to be a way way bigger jump. It would be like trying to do cross gen titles for PS1 and PS2, there’s a reason we didn’t really see that.

Switch is basically a souped up X360 and if early reports are to be believed, Switch 2 is not much less powerful than a PS5. That’s like a 15 year jump in hardware evolution. Cross gen isn’t gonna be happening unless the devs basically make two separate games (which did used to happen occasionally back in the days of truly big hardware jumps). 

I highly doubt Switch will be almost as powerful as PS5, it may be able to run most current gen games (many of which still release on previous gen consoles) and not appear to be a massive difference to the average person but PS5 will be comfortably more powerful on a technical level.

PS5 costs $450-500, a portable that’s nearly as powerful would likely be $600 or more and Nintendo is not releasing a $600 device. The most likely scenario is that Switch 2 vs PS5 will be similar to Switch vs PS4 but thanks to diminishing returns, engines designed for scalability and techniques like DLSS, the gap might appear closer.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

super_etecoon said:

2 million?  Yeah, I just wanted to quote that for posterity.  Prime 4 is doing 4 million minimum.  It could even go above 5.  Metroid Dread, a full price 2D game did 3 million.  

Remember Nintendo really put their marketing muscle (and money) behind Dread. It was THE fall 2021 game for them besides some Pokomon remakes. And it essentially being the launch game for the OLED model helped too. I love Dread, but it does not seem to have any legs.



Nintendo's forecast of 15m this year always felt too low to me but I guess they saw this holiday season coming. Japan is down 42% YoY for the month and USA is looking to be down possibly over 40%. IDK if December can improve but this holiday is looking rough to say the least. 160m+ is looking an increasingly difficult hurdle to reach.



Bofferbrauer2 said:

reminds me of what people thought about Zelda before Breath of the Wild went on and shattered the sales records of the series

Not really a comparison. Firstly Zelda has a lot more games released and always had ups and downs sales wise. There was no downwards spiral like with the Prime games that occurred after the first one.



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Shtinamin_ said:
javi741 said:

Prime being an FPS isn't the reason why it's niche. We've seen 2D Metroid games that fall more in line with the typical 2D Platform generes Nintendo fans love but would still sell low. Goldeneye is an exclusive Nintendo FPS and it was one of the bestselling N64 games, and I'm sure any other more accessible FPS would do just fine on a Nintendo platform.

Metroid is niche thanks in part to its atmosphere. It's dark, it's isolated with very little story. It's not as bright, lively, and colorful looking like Mario & Zelda, which makes those games more approachable. Metroid also has more complicated controls and gameplay compared to many other games for it to be as popular.

But yea Metroid will always remain niche, won't be a system seller due to the nature of its atmosphere and gameplay. A lot of people probably got turned off by Prime 1 on the GC which led to Prime 2 selling far worse, probably since the game isn't a typical 1st person shooter game like they were expecting and is more of a exploration adventure experience. Prime 3 selling that low on a 100 Million install base should also speak volumes that Metroid will always remain niche. I could see Prime 4 maybe selling 5 Million at best.

GoldenEye 007 sold so well on the N64 was due to its:
1. Fun level designs, each different with varying levels of difficulty
2. Level Design was non-linear and allowed experimentation
3. The "AI" was good enough that stealth was fun
4. The MULTIPLAYER mode slapped

Does anyone else remember how fun it was to play with your friends shooting each others? I do, endless hours, "tournaments", and trying to make things difficult and fun for everyone (cardboard cuttouts so everyone got to see their own corner and no screen peeking).

If Metroid Prime 4 is able to have a multiplayer mode, then MP4 will easily sell over 5M.

Let's not forget the N64 had 4-player, which the competition did not have. I believe many FPS enthusiast have gone to Playstation, XBOX or PC over the years. Just look at how many FPS games there are on Switch and how they are selling.



If switch 2 releases in 2024 then it's impossible for switch to hit 160m. Nintendo must delay releasing the switch 2 to 2026/2027 for it to have any chance of beating the PS2 and become the best selling console ever. 8-10m next year, 5m in 2025 and another 5m before the switch 2 launches in early 2027



Looking at Nintendo's financial briefing released after the last investment meeting, there was a chart where it was shown in what countries Nintendo officially sells their products. If I read the chart correctly Nintendo does not sell officially in countries like India, Thailand or Indonesia. I get that the average income isn't very high in these countries, but these are highly populated. There should be a market of a few million Switches every year there. Perhaps there are reasons, but I don't know why Nintendo is not officially present there. I visited Thailand a couple of years ago and you can find Sony shops with PlayStation there.



HyrulianScrolls said:
zorg1000 said:

A game can be a hardware showcase while also being on a previous generation device. PS5/XSX are three years old and only have a handful of AAA titles that aren’t on PS4/XBO, many of their best looking games are cross-gen or updated ports.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if some of those PS5/XSX exclusives could run on PS4/XBO and they just chose to make them exclusive. For example, after seeing God of War: Ragnarok & Horizon: Forbidden West on PS4, I have a hard time believing Spider-Man 2 couldn’t also been on PS4 if they wanted it to be.

Metroid Prime 4 can absolutely be a hardware showcase for Switch 2 even with a Switch 1 version. Higher resolution, higher/more stable frame rate, faster load times, better lighting/particle effects, etc. This is basically what most PS5/XBX games offer over their PS4/XBO versions.

Literally my whole argument has been that Switch 2 is not remotely comparable to the cross gen examples you’re using. It’s going to be a way way bigger jump. It would be like trying to do cross gen titles for PS1 and PS2, there’s a reason we didn’t really see that.

Switch is basically a souped up X360 and if early reports are to be believed, Switch 2 is not much less powerful than a PS5. That’s like a 15 year jump in hardware evolution. Cross gen isn’t gonna be happening unless the devs basically make two separate games (which did used to happen occasionally back in the days of truly big hardware jumps). 

Switch 2 will be much closer to PS4 than PS5

Cross gen titles will only not happen if Nintendo don't want them to happen to make people rushing buying the new console. It can happen with few IPs, but something more niche like Metroid? Hardly. Metroid development started many years ago anyway, and they promised the game to be released on Switch just like BOTW was promised to be released on Wii U



Tober said:

Looking at Nintendo's financial briefing released after the last investment meeting, there was a chart where it was shown in what countries Nintendo officially sells their products. If I read the chart correctly Nintendo does not sell officially in countries like India, Thailand or Indonesia. I get that the average income isn't very high in these countries, but these are highly populated. There should be a market of a few million Switches every year there. Perhaps there are reasons, but I don't know why Nintendo is not officially present there. I visited Thailand a couple of years ago and you can find Sony shops with PlayStation there.

It's kinda like the same concept as China, except there aren't any law outlawing capitalistic ideas.

India, China, Thailand, Indonesia have a high black market ratio where "fake" consoles are sold at a ridiculously low rate that play the games that kids want. 
The economy over there is very poor, over 50% live in poverty but have enough to get by. Consoles are way too expensive $300 USD is very high compared to the Rupee. 
The demographic are not playing like the US is now, they aren't sitting down at a tv to play games. The children in India are active, running, working, watching football. If they are playing games they are most likely playing on the fake consoles or free games on their phones like China.

I totally agree, Nintendo should be selling consoles in those countries, but they should be selling them at a really dirt cheap price, but that could get messy with scammers, and people selling Indian-market consoles outside of India making bank. It's a rough decision.



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 160 million (was 120 million, then 140 million, then 150 million)

PS5: 130 million (was 124 million)

Xbox Series X/S: 54 million (was 60 million, then 57 million)

"The way to accomplish great things, is to be indefatigable and never rest till the thing is accomplished." - Joseph Smith Jr.