As i've said in another thread, Fallout 1&2 are most definately in my top 10 games of all time.

The world was absolutely inspiring. Attention to detail, art style, characters, dialogues, combat system... you could see that this game was made with love (sounds stupid but couldn't described it better). Not to mention all the possibilities and the very noticable question of morality - what is actually right or moral to do in some situations that game puts you in. Child killing, drug addiction were only some aspects that put hte accent on that matter. Besides, all of them are sanctioned in some way.

By seeing F3 previews, i just can't find that depth, and that matters me the most.

shio said: @Onyxmeth You are just really giving excuses. There is no way that Fallout 1&2 would be AO rated today. There have been several games throughout the years that had mindless child-killing, and none of them ever got banned, and they were worse than Fallout. Games that allows child-killing: Deus Ex series, Morrowind, THE SIMS 1&2, FABLE, Black & White, SUPER SMASH BROS series, etc................. Bethesda is possibly trying to make Fallout 3 Teen-rated, just like they tried with Oblivion.

I don't remember any children in morrowind... I hated the lack of consequnce in that game.  

Any clue on if Fallout works on Vista?  Want to play that but i'm not making the same mistake i made with Knights of the Old Republic. 

Kasz216 said: shio said: @Onyxmeth You are just really giving excuses. There is no way that Fallout 1&2 would be AO rated today. There have been several games throughout the years that had mindless child-killing, and none of them ever got banned, and they were worse than Fallout. Games that allows child-killing: Deus Ex series, Morrowind, THE SIMS 1&2, FABLE, Black & White, SUPER SMASH BROS series, etc................. Bethesda is possibly trying to make Fallout 3 Teen-rated, just like they tried with Oblivion. I don't remember any children in morrowind... I hated the lack of consequnce in that game. Any clue on if Fallout works on Vista? Want to play that but i'm not making the same mistake i made with Knights of the Old Republic.

If you mean the original Fallout, yeah it plays on Vista. I'm playing it on Vista myself.

 

Onyxmeth said: student said: Some comments on Troika's activity: http://www.nma-fallout.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16708   As for the setting change, it's not simply moving to the east coast. However, suddenly the super mutants, a creation by Richard Grey on the west coast are over there? Likewise, the Brotherhood of Steel has upped its roots and moved east, and not only moved east, but taken on a whole new appearance? The BoS was a very private, inactive organization that prided themselves in their technology and keeping it clean. In the screens, they're running and gunning with the best of them. That link you gave me states that Troika never bid on the Fallout license and merely asked Bethesda if they could work on the project with them and Bethesda said "no", which he then agreed was a fair decision. It doesn't mention anything about getting funding for the license bid, or who would publish the title or anything. About the setting, you're probably right. The only answer I'd have is that I believe the third game takes place at least 80 years after Fallout 2 and people could have moved around a lot since then and changed their leadership, strategies, etc. 80 years in videogame time is usually nothing, but if you compare it to 80 years in our world, major changes happen between a time frame like that.

Errr, yes and no. They never bid on it but the quote:"One major publisher mentioned Interplay was shopping it around and would be interested in us developing it for them, but they dropped it as too expensive when they found out the asking price (not ours, Interplay's)."  So it wasn't bethesda's bid that knocked them out, but if I were to guess (and Interplay's financial trouble would lead to believe), Interplay would have likely lowered the price were it not for bethesda's offer. All the same, the situation doesn't change too significantly. Thanks for actually reading it though, it shows sincerity in the issue. 

 

Onyxmeth said: Kasz216 said: shio said: @Onyxmeth You are just really giving excuses. There is no way that Fallout 1&2 would be AO rated today. There have been several games throughout the years that had mindless child-killing, and none of them ever got banned, and they were worse than Fallout. Games that allows child-killing: Deus Ex series, Morrowind, THE SIMS 1&2, FABLE, Black & White, SUPER SMASH BROS series, etc................. Bethesda is possibly trying to make Fallout 3 Teen-rated, just like they tried with Oblivion. I don't remember any children in morrowind... I hated the lack of consequnce in that game. Any clue on if Fallout works on Vista? Want to play that but i'm not making the same mistake i made with Knights of the Old Republic. If you mean the original Fallout, yeah it plays on Vista. I'm playing it on Vista myself.

Cool.  The only game i've played is "Wasteland" it's unoffical predacessor.  Which was cool, aside from having to look up the freaking text in the book it came with.

 

Onyxmeth said: shio said: Onyxmeth said: shio said: @Onyxmeth You are just really giving excuses. There is no way that Fallout 1&2 would be AO rated today. There have been several games throughout the years that had mindless child-killing, and none of them ever got banned, and they were worse than Fallout. Games that allows child-killing: Deus Ex series, Morrowind, THE SIMS 1&2, FABLE, Black & White, SUPER SMASH BROS series, etc................. Bethesda is possibly trying to make Fallout 3 Teen-rated, just like they tried with Oblivion. I didn't just mean that there would be child killing, as I'm sure many games have had it. This is what child killing in Fallout 3 will look like though: You see the difference between child killing in The Sims and child killing in Fallout 3 now? This would be a bit on the gruesome side. It could very easily get an AO rating putting a shotgun to a child's head and watching it explode. Just remember that Manhunt 2 got an AO rating even without the child killing. Also I'm going to have to go with Words of Wisdom and ask you about Smash Bros. What Smash bros. are you playing that features child killing?   Oh please, Bethesda could just turn off blowing children's heads ingame, I don't even remember if Bloody Mess affects children or not in the old Fallout games. And in the Sims it was MUCH WORSE, where the kids could suffer a much worse fate: they could be starved for days until they died. And in all other games you had almost no consequence by killing children, which means no punishment for child-killers. But in Fallout if you killed or even touched a child you would be outcasted and pursued. I'm sure you could turn off the head shots, and the gruesomeness, but doesn't that break the immersion? You could actually just make the whole experience of child killing text based with a simple yes or no answer and have it happen off screen but then it just seems so tacked on. If it's going to stay in, it should blend in with the rest of the game not take the player out of the setting. I'm also not trying to argue that child killing is a bad thing, as I'm sure i'd love to kill some Fallout kids if they were rolling around on Heelys, it's just that this could get them the AO rating possibly, and that's not a risk most companies outside of Rockstar like to take. As far as The Sims, starvation alone does not get you an AO rating, it's what's visible on screen that does. You've got to answer on the Smash Bros. thing because I'm dying to go into that game and see whatever child killing you speak of.

What breaks the immersion the most? Not being able to headshot a child, or have NO children at all? And besides, headshot explosions are not done everytime you shoot the head, it only occurs when you do a critical headshot. I'd bet most of the times you shoot the head it won't explode. So children not suffering headshot explosions does not break immersion.

And again (it seems you are too thick to understand), Fallout has the done the best way to excuse child-killing in a videogame. If you kill a child in Fallout 1&2, the world will tell you that you are a child-killer and that you are Evil and deserve to die in the desert as an outcast, and you will get pursued by bounty hunters for the rest of the game. You even get a permanent tag in your character stats:

Childkiller - You have killed children, the youth of the wasteland. This is considered to be a really bad thing. You evil, evil person.

So tell me, which other games tell you are an evil person because of your deeds?

And I don't even need to tell you about Smash Bros since it's so obvious where you beat and kill children.

So... i'm guessing you mean Ness and Lucas Smash Brothers wise? Though i don't think anybody actually dies.

I still don't remember children in Morrowind.

Please... Fallout is an isometric and text based game. Not 3d crap. Sure you could see people being blown up like that but it wasn't in high quality 3d detail. The fact that its like oblivion is one of the reasons its not a fallout game. And yes games aren't as liberal as they use to be, which is a crying shame. I miss the games that came out in the late 90's. Gaming in some ways is essentially lifeless now, at least in the genre's that I love. Yes I know that many great games are made like Nintendo's stuff. Im a big fan. But I want to play the fight club of gaming as-well.

FaRmLaNd said: Please... Fallout is an isometric and text based game. Not 3d crap. Sure you could see people being blown up like that but it wasn't in high quality 3d detail. The fact that its like oblivion is one of the reasons its not a fallout game. And yes games aren't as liberal as they use to be, which is a crying shame. I miss the games that came out in the late 90's. Gaming in some ways is essentially lifeless now, at least in the genre's that I love. Yes I know that many great games are made like Nintendo's stuff. Im a big fan. But I want to play the fight club of gaming as-well.

Well yeah, but we're talking ten years later. Everything is in high quality 3D detail now and isometric gameplay is going the way of the dodo(sadly). I agree with you fully about how conservative games have had to get since GTA: San Andreas kinda ruined it for everybody. My point was just to say that Bethesda is kinda up against a wall on whether to include all of the vast amounts of taboo topics in Fallout 3 and heavily risk an AO rating, or cut it out and have a chance to sell this game to the public. This game emerging on consoles just makes it stricter to what they can allow in it as you know it would have gathered massive amounts of negative media coverage. It's really sad that it couldn't be everything to everyone but i've noticed that almost no two Fallout fans want the same things in this game.

 

Is it just me or is what Fallout 3 fans want a 'Fallout 2 - Rehashed edition'. No gameplay changes, no changes to 3D, no setting changes, basically Fallout 2 but with a new story?