What makes it a "true next gen game"? You just said it didn't do anything special gameplay wise and really only did spectacular stuff in the graphics department. If visuals that aren't possible on last gen hardware are what makes a game "true next gen" then virtually every game will be a true next gen game. Also, the only person I saw comparing SS to GTA V was you.

Yes, PS4 launched in 2013 and yes, in 2015 we saw some great games taking advantage of next gen power. 2015 is two years after PS4 launched. MS is saying, at max, "worst case" scenario, they'll have cross gen games ONE year after launch. So why would there not be amazing XSX games taking full advantage after one year? Why wouldn't there be at launch?

Your Halo comment is making assumptions. You don't have to be a developer to understand basic ideas of how development works, you just have to be a gamer who pays attention. They can easily make Halo Infinite on XSX that has all that stuff you mentioned, AND have a last gen version that has different design and runs at a much lower res. Do people not understand how PC has worked for years? They don't make games with the lowest CPU or GPU in mind. You literally just agreed with my Forza comment about how they took the game designed for next gen Xbone and refit it to work on 360. Yet, for some weird reason, when XSX is involved they're going to go the opposite route. Even though with Flight Sim, they're taking the same approach everyone uses, design for power and scale back for other versions.

I guess I just don't get the blatant double standard. Infamous came like four months after launch and as you admit, did nothing new gameplay wise but had amazing visual effects and that's perfectly ok. But theoretically in your predictions XSX games will just be last gen games with next gen visuals. Sounds like.... the exact same situation to me. Except one is reality (Infamous) one is just a prediction that doesn't line up with logic or history (XSX). I remember when a game like LBP3 came out this gen and was cross gen and had complete parity across the versions and no one here cared and IIRC that was like a year after launch. There was no concern trolling, no talk about the game being held back. It's nonsense.

A true next gen experience is simply a game that does things that wouldn't be possible if it had to run on previous gen hardware, without turning it into a completely different game. This isn't exactly rocket science, I mean why do you think Cyberpunk 2077 will not get a release on Switch if they could just scale it down and make it lower res? And yes, for some games "next gen" just meant richer graphics and scale, while others do stuff like the crowd simulations we saw in Unity or have 1000.000 physics rendered feathers on screen like in the Last Guardian. Whether that are good design choices is besides the point. The point is that Ubisoft, for example, couldn't have done the crowd simulations if the game had to run on ps3/360 as well.

MS didn't say one year they said "“As our content comes out over the next year, TWO YEARS, all of our games, sort of like PC, will play up and down that family of devices,” revealed Head of Xbox Game Studio’ Matt Booty. If we only look at the move from hdd to ssd, what do you think it means for developers and what they can do with it? The truth is that we have no idea. All we know is that Sony is calling ssd the key to the next generation. How it will effect MS's exclusives by not taking full advantage of it, remains to be seen. But it's kinda foolish to think it will have no effect at all. 

Infamous didn't do anything that couldn't be done on PS3 without being a "completely different game". Snazzy visual effects being gone wouldn't make SS a completely different game. As you admitted, gameplay wise, it did nothing new. There's nothing wrong with a launch window title doing that though, that's typically the case for virtually every launch window title. That's the point some of us have been trying to make but have been told we're wrong. But then you go and prove us right anyway with your own opinion about a PS4 launch window title.

Yes, I'm aware of the time frame he said. Which means a max of one year after XSX launches, because we still have all of 2020. So at "worst", all of 2020 and 2021. So when 2022 hits, which is the same time frame as the 2015 games you're mentioning, cross gen should be done, if not much sooner. So you shan't be worried about it then. Either way we're good. Halo Infinite will do stuff on XSX not possible on Xbone, so it will be "true next gen" by your definition. Same with Hellblade and Forza.

Ok, if SS didn't do anything that couldn't be done on the ps3, then explain to me why they didn't release it for ps3 as well then? Also, explain to me what the whole purpose is of releasing a new console in the first place? Isn't it because the current gen consoles are stretching their technical limits? You're automatically assuming that the first wave of next gen games will be nothing special, just average games with a layer of paint and some snazzy effects. Therefore, it's fine that MS will be building all their exclusives for the next 2 years around HDD and a tablet cpu, that already sucked when it came out in 2013. 

I like to be more optimistic and who knows what kind of launch titles Sony will have. ND would have just released TLOU2 but keep in mind that they have 2 teams and their other team released Uncharted 4 back in 2016. So it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Sony drops some big bombs early next gen like Horizon Zero Dawn 2, a new GT and a new ND game, while taking full advantage of the hardware. Meanwhile MS will be trying to sell their more powerful console at a $200 premium with no games to showcase it. And no, Halo Infinite will not do anything that can't be done on the X1, that's the whole point I'm trying to make here. Halo Infinite will very likely be a straight port except in native 4k and 60fps and maybe some sharper textures. It will basically look like a remaster, instead of a true next gen title. Now, that doesn't necessarily make Halo Infinite a terrible game and a cross gen Halo will probably still be better than a next gen Killzone. But it's still a wasted opportunity for MS to show what the Series X can do. 

We will see if MS counts the last days of December as a whole year of support. But to me it sounds like 2 years of cross gen support from the moment the Series X gets released. I don't care as much as you might think as they are referring to their exclusives only. So it basically means just Halo, Forza and Gears will feel pretty dated. Just like the TLOU remaster felt dated when it came out on ps4, even if it was one of the best games on the system for a while.   

You’re the one who said SS didn’t do much gameplay wise to evolve from the PS3 games. Tell me what you think it did that would be impossible to alter on PS3 without being a “completely different game”. Because by your own admission, you see SS as a graphically impressive “true next gen” game with gameplay not advanced much from previous gen. Which is what a vast majority of launch window games are on all console launches. So what makes XSX games special for potentially falling into this category?

You claim to be optimistic but are taking the absolute worst case scenario in all regards when it comes to the XSX. It was said one to two years from January 2020. Yet you talk as if all throughout 2022 the games will still be cross gen. Myself and others have presented numerous instances of cross gen games being built for the powerful system and then downgraded for weaker hardware yet you assume all of these games will be built from the ground up for Xbone and just get a fancy coat of paint for XSX.

Which is a bizarre stance to take considering you described SS as essentially a last gen game gameplay wise but it does have a fancy coat of visual paint but still counts as a “true next gen” title. So SS, a game with no meaningful gameplay advancements in your own words, but great next gen visuals, is a great PS4 showcase. But a native 4K 60fps Halo with great next gen visuals is a wasted opportunity? 🤷🏻‍♂️ Whatever.

Look, what makes for a good game is totally subjective. What makes for a next gen game is not. This is what DF said about Second Son when it came out  "The power to deliver visuals of this calibre has existed for years on the PC, but it's only when developers are freed from the shackles of last-generation consoles that we can begin to see what the DX11-class hardware is truly capable of."

And yes, I agree that graphics don't always make for a good game. I'm sure that a lot of people would agree that Resident Evil 4 on the Gamecube is a much better game than RE5 or 6 on the ps4, for example. That doesn't mean they weren't next gen games and don't do things that couldn't be done on the Gamecube. It just means Capcom dropped the ball making them any good. There will always be terrible games and I'm sure next gen we'll see plenty. I do believe the ssd and cpu should open up possibilities for new types of game experiences. But whether the gameplay will get better or not, there's still a big difference between a game that is running on a engine specifically tailored for next gen consoles. Or a cross gen game build around last gen limitations in a higher resolution and fps, like Halo probably will. Like I said, TLOU remastered is still one of the best games on the ps4, but it's last gen roots are pretty obvious and most cross gen titles tend to feel the same way. 

Sure, it is very consumer friendly of MS, but frankly who cares? If I spend $600 on a next gen console, I want to play them next gen games. Like most people, I prefer Sony's 1st party exclusives, but if MS releases a beast of a console that's 30% more powerful, I would probably be tempted to buy it. However, if the extra horsepower doesn't translate to better graphics and Sony will have a 2 year head start with true next gen exclusives, it's gonna be a hard sell for MS.