By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sales Discussion - Global Hardware 15 December 2018

CrazyGPU on 11 January 2019
drinkandswim said:
A large % of gamers will choose one Xbox/PS4 and a Switch as their second system. PC Gamers will do the same especially with crossplat F2P. Nintendo is smart they lined themselves up as a Primary for a large audience and a secondary for the rest.

Yes, if they already have XBox / PS4, many buy it as a 2nd system, for its exclusives and for portability. I have friends that say, I love my PS4, but I take my switch to work, and when I got nothing to do I play with it. That´s an example  where the mobile factor show it strength.



Around the Network
zorg1000 on 11 January 2019
CrazyGPU said:
Now on Sales again. Who is buying the Switch?

Let see the sales of Nintendo with Home Consoles (rounded numbers):

NES 62
SNES 49 - lost 13 million
N64 33 - lost 16 million
GC 22 - lost 11 million
Wii 102 - Bought by casuals and family a lot, sold at half the price than other consoles and introduced the controllers. Most hardcore gamers don´t like it.
Wii U 14 - lost 8 million from GC came back with the downward trend.

Gameboy 119
GB advance 81
Nintendo DS 155
Nintendo 3DS 74

Sony home consoles

PS1-102m

PS2-157m

PS3-87m

PS4-92m (growing)

 

Non-Nintendo handhelds

Atari Lynx-3m

TurboExpress-1.5m

GameGear-10.6m

Sega Nomad-2m

Neo Geo Pocket-2m

WonderSwan-3.5m

N Gage-3m

PSP-81m

Vita-16m

 

Who was buying PSP? I mean you can see every Sony home console sold over 85 million while no non-Nintendo handheld sold over 20 million. Clearly PSP would have to be more of a home console based on this.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

CrazyGPU on 11 January 2019
zorg1000 said:
CrazyGPU said:
Now on Sales again. Who is buying the Switch?

Let see the sales of Nintendo with Home Consoles (rounded numbers):

NES 62
SNES 49 - lost 13 million
N64 33 - lost 16 million
GC 22 - lost 11 million
Wii 102 - Bought by casuals and family a lot, sold at half the price than other consoles and introduced the controllers. Most hardcore gamers don´t like it.
Wii U 14 - lost 8 million from GC came back with the downward trend.

Gameboy 119
GB advance 81
Nintendo DS 155
Nintendo 3DS 74

Sony home consoles

PS1-102m

PS2-157m

PS3-87m

PS4-92m (growing)

 

Non-Nintendo handhelds

Atari Lynx-3m

TurboExpress-1.5m

GameGear-10.6m

Sega Nomad-2m

Neo Geo Pocket-2m

WonderSwan-3.5m

N Gage-3m

PSP-81m

Vita-16m

 

Who was buying PSP? I mean you can see every Sony home console sold over 85 million while no non-Nintendo handheld sold over 20 million. Clearly PSP would have to be more of a home console based on this.

 

wrong, probably many people that bought Gameboy and Gameboy advance before, and some others that loved the playstation and wanted something portable. Again, people wanting mobile or a second console. 

I said that more mobile people are buying the switch than other kind of customers. And also that Switch is mostly a mobile design.

That doesn´t mean that the number of sales determine the nature of a console. 

I don´t understand how you understood that from my post...... really. read it again.



BlackBeauty on 11 January 2019

Looking at purely hardware sales trend doesn’t tell a whole lot.

The library and attachrate of the software tell more about the audience.

The switch audience buy more games per system than any Nintendo mobile console. (Clearly suggesting it’s not the same people that bought their handheld console)

They also buy way more third party software/indie. Allowing them to flourish on the platform. (Not typical Nintendo fans) 

 

Why does handheld have lower attchrates? Well it’s dominated by kids with limited allowance. 

The switch isnt like that at all by the information we know about the software sales.

Last edited by BlackBeauty - on 11 January 2019

drinkandswim on 11 January 2019
CrazyGPU said:

Now on Sales again. Who is buying the Switch?

Let see the sales of Nintendo with Home Consoles (rounded numbers):

NES 62
SNES 49 - lost 13 million
N64 33 - lost 16 million
GC 22 - lost 11 million
Wii 102 - Bought by casuals and family a lot, sold at half the price than other consoles and introduced the controllers. Most hardcore gamers don´t like it.
Wii U 14 - lost 8 million from GC came back with the downward trend.

Gameboy 119
GB advance 81
Nintendo DS 155
Nintendo 3DS 74

Every Mobile console sold a lot, So as we can see if we take away the akward Wii and the novelty it brought (gone in nowadays consoles)
There was a Nintendo core between 10 a 20 million that would buy a new Home Console from them.
But millions and millions that were buying mobile consoles.
So Nintendo Develop the Switch, a handheld with tv connection with a dock that cools the thing, so it can run somewhat faster and connects to a TV.
They Smartly sell it as a Home Console that can be taken away. ( They needed Home Console buyers, they have plenty of mobile buyers). The smartest move of all.
And suddenly they sell a lot.
but when you see the numbers, the first year, the PS4 sells more, The second year, the PS4 sells more ( in it´s 5th year since launch). It´s pretty obvious that is not eating much sales from it or from XBOX. So, it´s pretty clear that it´s a secondary competitor.
What happend with the 3DS sales, They drop quickly!. So who is buying the Switch?
Mostly Nintendo fans, and mobile gamers that want to play on the go.
Who else?
Well, Nintendo has all the characters that you can buy in MC Donalds or at toy stores, So its a great present for Christmas. Also the catalog fits better for family than the other console catalog.
How can you prove that? Switch sudenly sells a lot more in November and December. That´s not hardcore fever. That´s holiday season.

What i´m trying to prove here is that it´s true that you have to choose between 3 console makers. But the target is completely different and the competition is mostly indirect between the switch and the other consoles. It´s designed as a mobile console and more are being bougth by mobile buyers than the rest of the customers.
So, if we compare console sales, you can compare it with the others, but when you compare home console sales, I think the comparision is a little misguided. And that´s why it matters if people call it a home console or not.

Now on a Personal note: I don´t mind if it sells tons more that a PS4 because as I said before , the more gamers play on Switch, the more gamers are going to buy PS or Xbox in the future.
Also The good is Switch is the best mobile console ever, and the most powerfull one. The bad is that it´s a underpowered Home Console that looks last gen compared with ps4 pro or XBox one X.
But for me, it´s kind of sad when Nintendo launched the most powerfull and first 64 bit console, Nintendo 64, codenamed proyect Reality for its graphics and named Machine of the year. Even Silicon Graphics was involved, the greatest graphic company of its time.
After that GameCube, designed by IBM for the CPU and ArtX , a team that form from Silicon Graphic engineers that made Flipper GPU, bougth by ATI and modified to make the awesome radeon 9700 pro.
Personally those were competitive Home Consoles from Nintendo, and not The Wii, or Wii U or Switch.
How can a Zelda or Mario be like with the same creativity but the hardware of Xbox One X... How big the worlds, How detailed those worlds, How a remake of Ocarina of Time or even A link to the past in 3D would be like....
Those who think I have dark intentions to downgrade Nintendo sales need a brain transplant.
But Nintendo feels like Valve making Dota 2 when they used to make Half Life, they are earning money for sure, but it´s not the same.

Its true Nintendo hasn’t been a direct competitor since the Gamecube. But they are still competing and I would rather see Nintendo around then end up like Sega. Nintendo cant afford to take the same risks as Sony or Microsoft.

Last edited by drinkandswim - on 11 January 2019

Around the Network
drinkandswim on 11 January 2019
BlackBeauty said:

Looking at purely hardware sales trend doesn’t tell a whole lot.

The library and attachrate of the software tell more about the audience.

The switch audience buy more games per system than any Nintendo mobile console. (Clearly suggesting it’s not the same people that bought their handheld console)

They also buy way more third party software/indie. Allowing them to flourish on the platform. (Not typical Nintendo fans) 

 

Why does handheld have lower attchrates? Well it’s dominated by kids with limited allowance. 

The switch isnt like that at all by the information we know about the software sales.

Its still too expensive for a kids handheld. That should change this year.



DonFerrari on 11 January 2019
drinkandswim said:
Kerotan said:

Oh you meant the family together. Well that's rare these days. Most kids game by themselves on their phone, tablet, ps4, xbox, switch or 3ds.

Nintendo’s biggest audience has been Casuals and Families for at least Wii and Nintendo Switch. I dont really know what they were targeting with Wii U. Lol. But Nintendo Switch also targets hardcore gamers that want to play handheld.

They may target families as they always have. But I'll tell you that the most rare occurence I have seem is family playing consoles together before my generation became parents.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 11 January 2019
drinkandswim said:
CrazyGPU said:

Now on Sales again. Who is buying the Switch?

Let see the sales of Nintendo with Home Consoles (rounded numbers):

NES 62
SNES 49 - lost 13 million
N64 33 - lost 16 million
GC 22 - lost 11 million
Wii 102 - Bought by casuals and family a lot, sold at half the price than other consoles and introduced the controllers. Most hardcore gamers don´t like it.
Wii U 14 - lost 8 million from GC came back with the downward trend.

Gameboy 119
GB advance 81
Nintendo DS 155
Nintendo 3DS 74

Every Mobile console sold a lot, So as we can see if we take away the akward Wii and the novelty it brought (gone in nowadays consoles)
There was a Nintendo core between 10 a 20 million that would buy a new Home Console from them.
But millions and millions that were buying mobile consoles.
So Nintendo Develop the Switch, a handheld with tv connection with a dock that cools the thing, so it can run somewhat faster and connects to a TV.
They Smartly sell it as a Home Console that can be taken away. ( They needed Home Console buyers, they have plenty of mobile buyers). The smartest move of all.
And suddenly they sell a lot.
but when you see the numbers, the first year, the PS4 sells more, The second year, the PS4 sells more ( in it´s 5th year since launch). It´s pretty obvious that is not eating much sales from it or from XBOX. So, it´s pretty clear that it´s a secondary competitor.
What happend with the 3DS sales, They drop quickly!. So who is buying the Switch?
Mostly Nintendo fans, and mobile gamers that want to play on the go.
Who else?
Well, Nintendo has all the characters that you can buy in MC Donalds or at toy stores, So its a great present for Christmas. Also the catalog fits better for family than the other console catalog.
How can you prove that? Switch sudenly sells a lot more in November and December. That´s not hardcore fever. That´s holiday season.

What i´m trying to prove here is that it´s true that you have to choose between 3 console makers. But the target is completely different and the competition is mostly indirect between the switch and the other consoles. It´s designed as a mobile console and more are being bougth by mobile buyers than the rest of the customers.
So, if we compare console sales, you can compare it with the others, but when you compare home console sales, I think the comparision is a little misguided. And that´s why it matters if people call it a home console or not.

Now on a Personal note: I don´t mind if it sells tons more that a PS4 because as I said before , the more gamers play on Switch, the more gamers are going to buy PS or Xbox in the future.
Also The good is Switch is the best mobile console ever, and the most powerfull one. The bad is that it´s a underpowered Home Console that looks last gen compared with ps4 pro or XBox one X.
But for me, it´s kind of sad when Nintendo launched the most powerfull and first 64 bit console, Nintendo 64, codenamed proyect Reality for its graphics and named Machine of the year. Even Silicon Graphics was involved, the greatest graphic company of its time.
After that GameCube, designed by IBM for the CPU and ArtX , a team that form from Silicon Graphic engineers that made Flipper GPU, bougth by ATI and modified to make the awesome radeon 9700 pro.
Personally those were competitive Home Consoles from Nintendo, and not The Wii, or Wii U or Switch.
How can a Zelda or Mario be like with the same creativity but the hardware of Xbox One X... How big the worlds, How detailed those worlds, How a remake of Ocarina of Time or even A link to the past in 3D would be like....
Those who think I have dark intentions to downgrade Nintendo sales need a brain transplant.
But Nintendo feels like Valve making Dota 2 when they used to make Half Life, they are earning money for sure, but it´s not the same.

Its true Nintendo hasn’t been a direct competitor since the Gamecube. But they are still competiting and I would rather see Nintendo around then end up like Sega. Nintendo cant afford to take the same risks as Sony or Microsoft.

SO are you finally accepting that Switch isn't directly competing with PS4 and X1 and that the drop in sales is related to their age and saturation and not due to Switch doing great?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

OTBWY on 11 January 2019

When Nintendo has a successful console = Non direct! Doing their own thing!
When Nintendo has a less successful console = LOL can't compete with PS or Xbox LOL

It's pretty obvious that Nintendo having success is harmful and requires some mental gymnastics to cope.

Also, Switch has a core audience. You can't play the casual audience argument anymore.



drinkandswim on 11 January 2019
DonFerrari said:
drinkandswim said:

Its true Nintendo hasn’t been a direct competitor since the Gamecube. But they are still competiting and I would rather see Nintendo around then end up like Sega. Nintendo cant afford to take the same risks as Sony or Microsoft.

SO are you finally accepting that Switch isn't directly competing with PS4 and X1 and that the drop in sales is related to their age and saturation and not due to Switch doing great?

I never thought they were a direct Competitor. I think they are a fringe competitor. That is why you only see a small impact. I mean obviously they can't be a direct competitor. They cant target the same exact market. And I agree that Switch has a greater impact on 3DS sales than PS4/Xbox Sales. However, that was necessary 3DS is way outdated hardware.