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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Belgium starts criminal investigation against EA over FIFA loot boxes, Gaming Commission looking to sue

fatslob-:O said:
Ka-pi96 said:

That's not loot boxes. That's FIFA. No doubt the FIFA packs account for a chunk of that, but considering they recently announced FIFA 18 had sold 24 million copies... they don't need to sell packs to make money on FIFA.

It's not like they didn't pay for the FIFA licence (and make a load of money from it) before they started selling packs... oh wait, they did. It was already a hugely successful game without them. And EA are a business, not a petulent child, they aren't just going to throw their toys out of the pram and refuse to sell FIFA games anymore just because they're not as profitable as they once were. They'd still rake in a shit tonne of money. 24m sales for the last one, that's nearly Call of Duty level, any publisher in the world would love a game that sold 20m+ copies every single year and they're certainly not going to give it up just because they can't sell packs in it anymore.

Really ? "(60% just from Fifa Ultimate team iirc)" 

It didn't sound like how he implicated it in his wording at all ... 

You do realize that the majority of the money that EA makes on their FIFA licenses are to be repaid in debt when the bought the license, right ? Rest assured that EA's margins are thin and that the FIFA body isn't getting screwed out of the deal in the process since they hold all the keys. FIFA may sell a lot of copies but it's no good to EA if the FIFA body just keeps taking most of it and EA doesn't seem all that thrilled about their Star Wars license from Disney ... 

A bit out of date, but here's a source using 2016 data saying that FIFA as a whole makes up 40% of EA's revenue and that Ultimate Team by itself was worth about $800m a year. I expect that has grown now (well, obviously if it's now 60%) but UT wouldn't have suddenly grown so much in the last 2 years that it alone now makes up 60% of their revenue.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/10/10/fifa-remains-eas-bread-and-butter/#4c2596aa2140

Well I'd assume EA aren't complete idiots and don't pay much at all for the FIFA licence. It's a pretty useless licence, considering it literally only lets them use the FIFA name in their games, that's it. They don't really hold any keys at all. If EA had to rename the game "EA football" or something because they lost the FIFA licence, it would barely make a difference. The only real impact the FIFA licence has is that it allows them to use the World Cup, but that's only every 4 years, and they get by just fine making plenty of money without it in the other 3 years.

The FIFPro licence (for players) is obviously well within their means to afford considering Konami also pay for that one, despite PES not even coming close to FIFA's sales. The individual league/team ones wouldn't be that much either, for starters Konami also pay for a bunch of them, including some of the biggest teams around such as Liverpool and Barcelona, and well again EA aren't idiots, they aren't going to give up most of their income for licences, especially when their sole competition is as weak as PES is currently.



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fatslob-:O said:
Ka-pi96 said:

That's not loot boxes. That's FIFA. No doubt the FIFA packs account for a chunk of that, but considering they recently announced FIFA 18 had sold 24 million copies... they don't need to sell packs to make money on FIFA.

It's not like they didn't pay for the FIFA licence (and make a load of money from it) before they started selling packs... oh wait, they did. It was already a hugely successful game without them. And EA are a business, not a petulent child, they aren't just going to throw their toys out of the pram and refuse to sell FIFA games anymore just because they're not as profitable as they once were. They'd still rake in a shit tonne of money. 24m sales for the last one, that's nearly Call of Duty level, any publisher in the world would love a game that sold 20m+ copies every single year and they're certainly not going to give it up just because they can't sell packs in it anymore.

Really ? "(60% just from Fifa Ultimate team iirc)" 

It didn't sound like how he implicated it in his wording at all ... 

You do realize that the majority of the money that EA makes on their FIFA licenses are to be repaid in debt when the bought the license, right ? Rest assured that EA's margins are thin and that the FIFA body isn't getting screwed out of the deal in the process since they hold all the keys. FIFA may sell a lot of copies but it's no good to EA if the FIFA body just keeps taking most of it and EA doesn't seem all that thrilled about their Star Wars license from Disney ... 

Wyrdness said:

Don't kid yourself mate a large chunk of EA's profits came from FIFA alone if you think pulling out of EU is an option you're mistaken because guess what EA are a business and still need to operate regardless of any ruling, they're not going to give up 80% of FIFA's sales and potentially the license because someone else will fill the void.

And a large part of EA's costs are maintaining the FIFA license alone since FIFA doesn't own the problem of how their going to make the games profitable so if EA wants a cut from the property that's their problem ... 

Wyrdness said:

What dream are you talking about? Are you high or something because I've not said anything of the sort or are you looking to be dismantled on a personal level because I can do that if you wish. You're talking as if gaming companies mean something to nations they don't gaming is a niche market compared to many industries around and so many large publishers have gone under and have had no impact on the countries they were based in, you're spouting a fantasy here were these publishers are bigger than what they really are.

LOL, "Belgium is the main HQ for the EU and are already passing the proposal to the rest of EU so unless EA want to lose out on sales from a whole region that isn't really an option" ...

The revisionism is strong in you since you're trying so hard to hide your distaste of loot boxes as a supposed consensus. Acting as the strong man won't get you out this time since your denial only translates to cognitive dissonance ... (anyone can see that you have a bias against loot boxes and is salivating for an intercontinental wide ban on them)

Again, EU has jack shit for leverage since they don't have a consensus among their members and with the UK leaving it makes them less of a threat to EA than they are now ... 

You're trying hard to fabricate an argument that was never even said do you know who governs the EU? It's the bureaucrats in Brussels they have the power to push for laws among EU members and even override local laws with in their members this has always been the controversy of the EU because those against it cite that they have power over people who never elected them. How this fact pertains to some fabricated argument you've made up in your head is down to you but looking at your posts here it's not hard to realise how you'd make things up to argue. I don't have to act I'll just do much like I've done to a number of commandos before which have included yourself, it's even more hilarious is that the quote you brought up doesn't even support your accusation in any form especially when we look at your original post, it all highlights a massive reach on your behalf.

EU has plenty of leverage considering it's the biggest region in size and supplies a huge amount of sales for companies why do you think EA are fighting to begin with they gave up on loot boxes in Starwars but are fighting tooth and nail for it in FIFA, the money is significant all their other titles don't come close to the 24m FIFA moves yearly and most of that is in Europe, the UK is not going to make up for losing sales in the rest of the EU that's broken logic. It's funny as EA's actions contradict your argument because if EU didn't matter like you claim they would have pulled out long ago.

Last edited by Wyrdness - on 13 September 2018

Ka-pi96 said:
fatslob-:O said:

Really ? "(60% just from Fifa Ultimate team iirc)" 

It didn't sound like how he implicated it in his wording at all ... 

You do realize that the majority of the money that EA makes on their FIFA licenses are to be repaid in debt when the bought the license, right ? Rest assured that EA's margins are thin and that the FIFA body isn't getting screwed out of the deal in the process since they hold all the keys. FIFA may sell a lot of copies but it's no good to EA if the FIFA body just keeps taking most of it and EA doesn't seem all that thrilled about their Star Wars license from Disney ... 

A bit out of date, but here's a source using 2016 data saying that FIFA as a whole makes up 40% of EA's revenue and that Ultimate Team by itself was worth about $800m a year. I expect that has grown now (well, obviously if it's now 60%) but UT wouldn't have suddenly grown so much in the last 2 years that it alone now makes up 60% of their revenue.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/10/10/fifa-remains-eas-bread-and-butter/#4c2596aa2140

Well I'd assume EA aren't complete idiots and don't pay much at all for the FIFA licence. It's a pretty useless licence, considering it literally only lets them use the FIFA name in their games, that's it. They don't really hold any keys at all. If EA had to rename the game "EA football" or something because they lost the FIFA licence, it would barely make a difference. The only real impact the FIFA licence has is that it allows them to use the World Cup, but that's only every 4 years, and they get by just fine making plenty of money without it in the other 3 years.

The FIFPro licence (for players) is obviously well within their means to afford considering Konami also pay for that one, despite PES not even coming close to FIFA's sales. The individual league/team ones wouldn't be that much either, for starters Konami also pay for a bunch of them, including some of the biggest teams around such as Liverpool and Barcelona, and well again EA aren't idiots, they aren't going to give up most of their income for licences, especially when their sole competition is as weak as PES is currently.

Look what I posted before. it's 5 times bigger now and the main source of income of EA. They are at a point with Fifa that could give all their other games away for free and still make a hefty profit simply through UT. Fifa's revenue generation January through August lies at 5.15 Billion Dollar, with at least 4 Billion out of them must have been through UT.

The problem with UT is that they're not only selling power (aka Pay to Win), but gambling for it and getting away with it until now. You literally need hundreds of Packs to get at least a halfway decent team, and since the mode is competitive you either shut up and spend your money or leave out the meat of the game. That's Fifa nowadays, sadly.

Really, I wish some Indie devs would have the guts to make some sport sims, too, even without the licenses. Just add an extensive editor and Mod support so one can add the players, stadiums and all other infos yourself.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

A bit out of date, but here's a source using 2016 data saying that FIFA as a whole makes up 40% of EA's revenue and that Ultimate Team by itself was worth about $800m a year. I expect that has grown now (well, obviously if it's now 60%) but UT wouldn't have suddenly grown so much in the last 2 years that it alone now makes up 60% of their revenue.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/10/10/fifa-remains-eas-bread-and-butter/#4c2596aa2140

Well I'd assume EA aren't complete idiots and don't pay much at all for the FIFA licence. It's a pretty useless licence, considering it literally only lets them use the FIFA name in their games, that's it. They don't really hold any keys at all. If EA had to rename the game "EA football" or something because they lost the FIFA licence, it would barely make a difference. The only real impact the FIFA licence has is that it allows them to use the World Cup, but that's only every 4 years, and they get by just fine making plenty of money without it in the other 3 years.

The FIFPro licence (for players) is obviously well within their means to afford considering Konami also pay for that one, despite PES not even coming close to FIFA's sales. The individual league/team ones wouldn't be that much either, for starters Konami also pay for a bunch of them, including some of the biggest teams around such as Liverpool and Barcelona, and well again EA aren't idiots, they aren't going to give up most of their income for licences, especially when their sole competition is as weak as PES is currently.

Look what I posted before. it's 5 times bigger now and the main source of income of EA. They are at a point with Fifa that could give all their other games away for free and still make a hefty profit simply through UT. Fifa's revenue generation January through August lies at 5.15 Billion Dollar, with at least 4 Billion out of them must have been through UT.

The problem with UT is that they're not only selling power (aka Pay to Win), but gambling for it and getting away with it until now. You literally need hundreds of Packs to get at least a halfway decent team, and since the mode is competitive you either shut up and spend your money or leave out the meat of the game. That's Fifa nowadays, sadly.

Really, I wish some Indie devs would have the guts to make some sport sims, too, even without the licenses. Just add an extensive editor and Mod support so one can add the players, stadiums and all other infos yourself.

Had a quick look through but I didn't see any sources that you posted before.

Although I find it incredibly hard to believe that FUT has gone from $800m a year to $4b in just 7 months (not including either release month, or christmas either) over the last 2 years. Especially without a source...

@bold that's simply false. I personally had a pretty awesome team in FUT 18 without spending any real money at all (I had an HK version of the game and packs are region locked, so couldn't have bought any even if I wanted to).

Oh, and some indies do make sport sims. I don't know of any football ones, but all the rugby games released in the last few years (decade probably) have been indie games. They've also been pretty bad, like complete garbage in some cases (Rugby 15).



Ka-pi96 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Look what I posted before. it's 5 times bigger now and the main source of income of EA. They are at a point with Fifa that could give all their other games away for free and still make a hefty profit simply through UT. Fifa's revenue generation January through August lies at 5.15 Billion Dollar, with at least 4 Billion out of them must have been through UT.

The problem with UT is that they're not only selling power (aka Pay to Win), but gambling for it and getting away with it until now. You literally need hundreds of Packs to get at least a halfway decent team, and since the mode is competitive you either shut up and spend your money or leave out the meat of the game. That's Fifa nowadays, sadly.

Really, I wish some Indie devs would have the guts to make some sport sims, too, even without the licenses. Just add an extensive editor and Mod support so one can add the players, stadiums and all other infos yourself.

Had a quick look through but I didn't see any sources that you posted before.

Although I find it incredibly hard to believe that FUT has gone from $800m a year to $4b in just 7 months (not including either release month, or christmas either) over the last 2 years. Especially without a source...

@bold that's simply false. I personally had a pretty awesome team in FUT 18 without spending any real money at all (I had an HK version of the game and packs are region locked, so couldn't have bought any even if I wanted to).

Oh, and some indies do make sport sims. I don't know of any football ones, but all the rugby games released in the last few years (decade probably) have been indie games. They've also been pretty bad, like complete garbage in some cases (Rugby 15).

Here's another source, dutch this time: https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180909_03725401

It states that loot boxes make up 67% of EA's revenue, or 3 billion Euros (about 3.6 Billion Dollar). Your 800M figure is certainly either wrong under those circumstances or way outdated. So my 5.15B that I stated before could have been the whole revenue, but considering that over two third are from Lootboxes, it's still way over 800M

@bold: That's quite probably because you can't spend money. These types of games are made excessively grindy just because it sells ways around the grind like lootboxes, premium currencies and the like. However, if you can't bring the things to get around the massive grind, better remove it as well to not alienate everybody. Since EA loves to region Lock and Region Code, I'm pretty sure they did just that by increasing probabilities of getting better players.



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Had a quick look through but I didn't see any sources that you posted before.

Although I find it incredibly hard to believe that FUT has gone from $800m a year to $4b in just 7 months (not including either release month, or christmas either) over the last 2 years. Especially without a source...

@bold that's simply false. I personally had a pretty awesome team in FUT 18 without spending any real money at all (I had an HK version of the game and packs are region locked, so couldn't have bought any even if I wanted to).

Oh, and some indies do make sport sims. I don't know of any football ones, but all the rugby games released in the last few years (decade probably) have been indie games. They've also been pretty bad, like complete garbage in some cases (Rugby 15).

Here's another source, dutch this time: https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180909_03725401

It states that loot boxes make up 67% of EA's revenue, or 3 billion Euros (about 3.6 Billion Dollar). Your 800M figure is certainly either wrong under those circumstances or way outdated. So my 5.15B that I stated before could have been the whole revenue, but considering that over two third are from Lootboxes, it's still way over 800M

@bold: That's quite probably because you can't spend money. These types of games are made excessively grindy just because it sells ways around the grind like lootboxes, premium currencies and the like. However, if you can't bring the things to get around the massive grind, better remove it as well to not alienate everybody. Since EA loves to region Lock and Region Code, I'm pretty sure they did just that by increasing probabilities of getting better players.

Great, Dutch. What I get from google translate is that that's not even just loot box revenue. Rather just all digital revenues, and not exclusive to FIFA either. My $800m figure may be outdated, but at least it was definitely for FIFA packs and only FIFA packs.

And no, I didn't play the game a lot (and therefore earn the team I had) because I couldn't spend money, I did it because I enjoyed playing the game. And it's region locked in that your PSN account and copy of the game need to be from the same region in order to buy packs, there's nothing changed or removed in different region versions of the game.



Ka-pi96 said:
Bofferbrauer2 said:

Here's another source, dutch this time: https://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20180909_03725401

It states that loot boxes make up 67% of EA's revenue, or 3 billion Euros (about 3.6 Billion Dollar). Your 800M figure is certainly either wrong under those circumstances or way outdated. So my 5.15B that I stated before could have been the whole revenue, but considering that over two third are from Lootboxes, it's still way over 800M

@bold: That's quite probably because you can't spend money. These types of games are made excessively grindy just because it sells ways around the grind like lootboxes, premium currencies and the like. However, if you can't bring the things to get around the massive grind, better remove it as well to not alienate everybody. Since EA loves to region Lock and Region Code, I'm pretty sure they did just that by increasing probabilities of getting better players.

Great, Dutch. What I get from google translate is that that's not even just loot box revenue. Rather just all digital revenues, and not exclusive to FIFA either. My $800m figure may be outdated, but at least it was definitely for FIFA packs and only FIFA packs.

And no, I didn't play the game a lot (and therefore earn the team I had) because I couldn't spend money, I did it because I enjoyed playing the game. And it's region locked in that your PSN account and copy of the game need to be from the same region in order to buy packs, there's nothing changed or removed in different region versions of the game.

I checked to find better souces because it seemed a bit muddy for me too. So I came across their Quarterly report. Here are the slides: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4190939-electronic-arts-inc-2019-q1-results-earnings-call-slides and here's the full transcript, happy reading :https://seekingalpha.com/article/4190960-electronic-arts-ea-q1-2019-results-earnings-call-transcript

The 5.15B$ that I said before turn out to be total revenue last Financial Year, and EA is expecting 5.6B$ for this FY. So no, not just Fifa here.

3/4 of those 5.6B are expected to be digital goods, while last FY it was just two third (the 67% of the Nieuwsblad article).

The 3 Billion stated in that article seem to be EAs digital good sales on PC and consoles and mobile (3.550 Billion combined, out of which only 656 Million are from mobile games, so basically 3 Billion $ for PC and Consoles).

Out of those 3.55 Billions, only 668M are from game downloads, while a whooping 2.226B are from Live services (Loot boxes, DLC and Microtransactions)

Out of all their Live services, Fifa's Ultimate Team mode should be by far and large the biggest one. Considering the games in that list in the report, I could easily see Fifa taking up about 60% of those 2.226B, meaning 1.4-1.5B$. Much less than the numbers quoted before, but also quite a bit more than the 800M you posted. However EAs digital sales are exploding since FY 2016 (April 2015-March 2016), as they had 2.4B in digital sales back then and only 2 years later over 1 Billion more while physical sales contracted by less than 300M. Considering that both mobile games and digital game sales are pretty low, the only reason can be that their live services ballooned. Madden and especially UFC are way smaller than Fifa (probably around 5M and 2M including digital for both compared to the 24M of Fifa), SWTOR is slowly dying for years now, Sims 4 had very bad reviews and sales, SW BAttlefront II their lootboxes deactivated, Battlefield One Season Pass is just a season pass (thus not outselling the base game) and EA Access only started then. That basically just leaves Fifa  for the brunt of those sales. In fact, the transcript gives us just that: 

Blake J. Jorgensen - Electronic Arts, Inc.

Yeah. We – thanks, Brian, yeah, thank you. We typically don't break out Ultimate Team on a quarterly basis, but you should assume that Ultimate Team is over 50% of the live services component in any one quarter and certainly in the quarter that we just closed out..

So more than 1.1 Billion $ confirmed for FUT

Oh, and for those who think that those things are necessary for Publishers to stay alive because 60$ games wouldn't be enough to cover their expenses, think again: EA has a gross Profit margin of a whooping 75%. Not sure if even Apple has such a high profit margin.

Btw, from the transcript I learned that there's a Fifa mobile, so it even takes a part of that mobile pie, too.

Edit: All these news in quick succession are bad for EAs bottom line, especially their stocks. Their shares were at almost 150$ in late July but have dropped to 110$ one month later. And even investors think that's just the tip of the iceberg: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4205240-electronic-arts-bear-news-cycle-just-beginning

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 13 September 2018

Bofferbrauer2 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Great, Dutch. What I get from google translate is that that's not even just loot box revenue. Rather just all digital revenues, and not exclusive to FIFA either. My $800m figure may be outdated, but at least it was definitely for FIFA packs and only FIFA packs.

And no, I didn't play the game a lot (and therefore earn the team I had) because I couldn't spend money, I did it because I enjoyed playing the game. And it's region locked in that your PSN account and copy of the game need to be from the same region in order to buy packs, there's nothing changed or removed in different region versions of the game.

I checked to find better souces because it seemed a bit muddy for me too. So I came across their Quarterly report. Here are the slides: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4190939-electronic-arts-inc-2019-q1-results-earnings-call-slides and here's the full transcript, happy reading :https://seekingalpha.com/article/4190960-electronic-arts-ea-q1-2019-results-earnings-call-transcript

The 5.15B$ that I said before turn out to be total revenue last Financial Year, and EA is expecting 5.6B$ for this FY. So no, not just Fifa here.

3/4 of those 5.6B are expected to be digital goods, while last FY it was just two third (the 67% of the Nieuwsblad article).

The 3 Billion stated in that article seem to be EAs digital good sales on PC and consoles and mobile (3.550 Billion combined, out of which only 656 Million are from mobile games, so basically 3 Billion $ for PC and Consoles).

Out of those 3.55 Billions, only 668M are from game downloads, while a whooping 2.226B are from Live services (Loot boxes, DLC and Microtransactions)

Out of all their Live services, Fifa's Ultimate Team mode should be by far and large the biggest one. Considering the games in that list in the report, I could easily see Fifa taking up about 60% of those 2.226B, meaning 1.4-1.5B$. Much less than the numbers quoted before, but also quite a bit more than the 800M you posted. However EAs digital sales are exploding since FY 2016 (April 2015-March 2016), as they had 2.4B in digital sales back then and only 2 years later over 1 Billion more while physical sales contracted by less than 300M. Considering that both mobile games and digital game sales are pretty low, the only reason can be that their live services ballooned. Madden and especially UFC are way smaller than Fifa (probably around 5M and 2M including digital for both compared to the 24M of Fifa), SWTOR is slowly dying for years now, Sims 4 had very bad reviews and sales, SW BAttlefront II their lootboxes deactivated, Battlefield One Season Pass is just a season pass (thus not outselling the base game) and EA Access only started then. That basically just leaves Fifa  for the brunt of those sales. In fact, the transcript gives us just that: 

Blake J. Jorgensen - Electronic Arts, Inc.

Yeah. We – thanks, Brian, yeah, thank you. We typically don't break out Ultimate Team on a quarterly basis, but you should assume that Ultimate Team is over 50% of the live services component in any one quarter and certainly in the quarter that we just closed out..

So more than 1.1 Billion $ confirmed for FUT

Oh, and for those who think that those things are necessary for Publishers to stay alive because 60$ games wouldn't be enough to cover their expenses, think again: EA has a gross Profit margin of a whooping 75%. Not sure if even Apple has such a high profit margin.

Btw, from the transcript I learned that there's a Fifa mobile, so it even takes a part of that mobile pie, too.

Edit: All these news in quick succession are bad for EAs bottom line, especially their stocks. Their shares were at almost 150$ in late July but have dropped to 110$ one month later. And even investors think that's just the tip of the iceberg: https://seekingalpha.com/article/4205240-electronic-arts-bear-news-cycle-just-beginning

"Rest assured that EA's margins are thin" Yeah... I knew that wasn't true anyway, but nice to have proof of it there.

Nice to have all the info now, thanks. $1.1B+ is still huge for FUT (and shows very good growth from the $800m I found from 2016), and while they obviously wouldn't want to lose that revenue, FIFA would still be a cash cow for them even without it. So any suggestions they're just going to scrap the franchise if they can't sell packs anymore is quite simply ridiculous.

Plus there's also the fact that even if loot boxes are banned in the whole of the EU, that's only loot boxes with random content. Regular microtransactions would be unaffected. So if it did come to that then EA could just shift FUT from buying FIFA points/packs to buying coins directly which players can spend on the transfer market and know for sure what they're going to get out of it. It probably wouldn't rake in as much money, since now there's no random chance people don't need to keep spending hoping for something, they can just go out and get the thing they want most straight away for a one off payment. Should still generate a lot of revenue, and it's better for consumers if they can actually buy the things they want rather than having to gamble for them.



Ka-pi96 said:

A bit out of date, but here's a source using 2016 data saying that FIFA as a whole makes up 40% of EA's revenue and that Ultimate Team by itself was worth about $800m a year. I expect that has grown now (well, obviously if it's now 60%) but UT wouldn't have suddenly grown so much in the last 2 years that it alone now makes up 60% of their revenue.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/10/10/fifa-remains-eas-bread-and-butter/#4c2596aa2140

Well I'd assume EA aren't complete idiots and don't pay much at all for the FIFA licence. It's a pretty useless licence, considering it literally only lets them use the FIFA name in their games, that's it. They don't really hold any keys at all. If EA had to rename the game "EA football" or something because they lost the FIFA licence, it would barely make a difference. The only real impact the FIFA licence has is that it allows them to use the World Cup, but that's only every 4 years, and they get by just fine making plenty of money without it in the other 3 years.

The FIFPro licence (for players) is obviously well within their means to afford considering Konami also pay for that one, despite PES not even coming close to FIFA's sales. The individual league/team ones wouldn't be that much either, for starters Konami also pay for a bunch of them, including some of the biggest teams around such as Liverpool and Barcelona, and well again EA aren't idiots, they aren't going to give up most of their income for licences, especially when their sole competition is as weak as PES is currently.

EA aren't idiots but the same goes for FIFA body as well or other licensees. EA Sports already took away PES's license for the Champions League, Europa League and many more. Licenses matter a shit ton to EA's FIFA franchise and they don't come cheap either especially since they usually keep raising the price expecting a higher payout. Licenses are probably the majority of the reason why FIFA holds an absolute advantage over PES since you'd miss out on the many leagues that the former offers over the latter ... 

Wyrdness said:

You're trying hard to fabricate an argument that was never even said do you know who governs the EU? It's the bureaucrats in Brussels they have the power to push for laws among EU members and even override local laws with in their members this has always been the controversy of the EU because those against it cite that they have power over people who never elected them. How this fact pertains to some fabricated argument you've made up in your head is down to you but looking at your posts here it's not hard to realise how you'd make things up to argue. I don't have to act I'll just do much like I've done to a number of commandos before which have included yourself, it's even more hilarious is that the quote you brought up doesn't even support your accusation in any form especially when we look at your original post, it all highlights a massive reach on your behalf.

EU has plenty of leverage considering it's the biggest region in size and supplies a huge amount of sales for companies why do you think EA are fighting to begin with they gave up on loot boxes in Starwars but are fighting tooth and nail for it in FIFA, the money is significant all their other titles don't come close to the 24m FIFA moves yearly and most of that is in Europe, the UK is not going to make up for losing sales in the rest of the EU that's broken logic. It's funny as EA's actions contradict your argument because if EU didn't matter like you claim they would have pulled out long ago.

Right there is your cognitive dissonance ...  

What said has NO RELEVANCE to what was previously stated before. EU member countries have NO COMMON GROUND regarding the legislation of loot boxes. EU is useless crap that you're just flaunting around when 3 of the biggest member states have no plans on considering a general ban on loot boxes like Belgium is ... 

EA isn't one bit afraid of the EU or a powerless/tiny state such as Belgium ... 



fatslob-:O said:
Ka-pi96 said:

A bit out of date, but here's a source using 2016 data saying that FIFA as a whole makes up 40% of EA's revenue and that Ultimate Team by itself was worth about $800m a year. I expect that has grown now (well, obviously if it's now 60%) but UT wouldn't have suddenly grown so much in the last 2 years that it alone now makes up 60% of their revenue.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/10/10/fifa-remains-eas-bread-and-butter/#4c2596aa2140

Well I'd assume EA aren't complete idiots and don't pay much at all for the FIFA licence. It's a pretty useless licence, considering it literally only lets them use the FIFA name in their games, that's it. They don't really hold any keys at all. If EA had to rename the game "EA football" or something because they lost the FIFA licence, it would barely make a difference. The only real impact the FIFA licence has is that it allows them to use the World Cup, but that's only every 4 years, and they get by just fine making plenty of money without it in the other 3 years.

The FIFPro licence (for players) is obviously well within their means to afford considering Konami also pay for that one, despite PES not even coming close to FIFA's sales. The individual league/team ones wouldn't be that much either, for starters Konami also pay for a bunch of them, including some of the biggest teams around such as Liverpool and Barcelona, and well again EA aren't idiots, they aren't going to give up most of their income for licences, especially when their sole competition is as weak as PES is currently.

EA aren't idiots but the same goes for FIFA body as well or other licensees. EA Sports already took away PES's license for the Champions League, Europa League and many more. Licenses matter a shit ton to EA's FIFA franchise and they don't come cheap either especially since they usually keep raising the price expecting a higher payout. Licenses are probably the majority of the reason why FIFA holds an absolute advantage over PES since you'd miss out on the many leagues that the former offers over the latter ...

Sega's Football Manager series sells roughly 1m copies every year (probably a bit less actually) and they have pretty much all the same licences that EA does. Yet the franchise guarantees them profit every year still.

10 years ago, FIFA would have only sold about 10m per year (compared to 24m+ for FIFA 18) and had no microtransactions at all, yet still has pretty much all the same licences (they didn't have Russia (which won't be in 19 anyway), Japan or Turkey back then, but I think that's all). FIFA was still a hugely successful franchise back then as well.

You're massively overestimating the cost of licences. It's a fact that franchises have been able to afford licences (many of the exact same ones even) with significantly lower revenue than FIFA currently receives while still making a healthy profit.