totalwar23 said: CaptainPrefrences said: totalwar23 do you see the fights between the minutemen and mexicans down in the south? I can beleive in what ever the fuck I want to beleive in and I do beleive in the 9/11 conspiracy theories, and so do a lot of other Americans. Can you prove that islamic peopel bomed the wtf? dont even say bin laden because the vid he was in showed him writting with his rigght hand when he is left handed! half of the so called terrorists were eitehr well off in egtpy or the middle east and some were even dead before. soem were shocked to see that they were accused. if your going to hate me because i beleive in something, your very ignorant. okay, I don't feel like the way the pic shows but seriously-goddam.

I know most of the world hates america but, 9/11 conspiracy? We went to war just for oil? (an example)  These things piss me off the most, I mean come on, use some common sense! (and not alot of people believe in the conspiracy, only about 1/10

@totalwar: I completely agree, although I believe the number to be somewhere around 15-18 million... I am all for immigration, it is just I want people to follow the laws and come here legally. I don't know if that means we need to issue a few more visa to stymie illegal immigration as I haven't studied it myself. But when over half of the prison population are illegal immigrants from south of the border, we need to do something. People please come to America, but do so through the proper channels. The fault of the red-tape for that is laid completely at the feet of the Federal Government.

And from what you've said before, a lot of American also think you eat caribou and live in igloos, you're saying you want to side with them?

After all, if Americans believe something that you know is utterly ridiculous and unfounded, that makes them ignorant, but if they believe in something 90+% of America knows is utterly ridiculous and unfounded, that apparently doesn't matter.

And this logic works because you know better than to believe ignorant Americans?

Sorry, I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to determine which Americans are ignorant and which aren't based on how you qualify that. Maybe you could clarify that a bit so that the rest of us can understand that.

Absolutely. On the other hand, can you blame these people for trying to get over here no matter what? I sure can't and I think I would do the same if I was in their place.

Immigration is a good thing..... but it can only be good if done legally.  If you have so many undocumented people in a country and one commits a crime, how would you find him?

And also it hurts jobs for citizens because all of the sudden now we need more jobs.

I  also agree also.

As with every country it varies. Due to the size of America there are also strong regional variations.

From my experience people from the North East are often more liberal, educated and open minded than the people from the South although Americans in general are pretty kind people and the ones I've met I generally have liked. The stereotypical fat, stupid American is very much a false stereotype, although those people do exist its not as prevalent as you may be led to believe.


That said I'm not a fan of America politically, I despise its legal system, its voting system, its conservatism and its foreign policy. Just because the Americans are nice people doesn't mean the country is a positive influence on the world.

This won't end well.

Rath, I am not trying to start an argument, I am honestly curious. Why do you despise all of those things, especially Conservatism? If you could give a brief (or detailed, your choice) outline of why you do I would like to see it. I just want to understand why you think this way. I promise I am just curious.

I suppose conservatism was the wrong word actually, its the religious interference in politics which occurs with many conservatives that I despise. The blocking of health and science issues such as cloning, genetic engineering and stem cell research along with the blocking of advancements in human rights such as gay marriage on religious grounds just irks me.

I don't like the legal system because its borderline crazy. In some places they elect their judges which ends up with people being hugely unqualified for their jobs and they also can sue for pretty crazy stuff, sometimes succesfully.

The voting system I don't like because it ends up with debacles like what happened with George Bush winning despite the other candidate getting more votes.

I don't like its foreign policy because currently its overly aggresive and provocative. The war in Afghanistan was justified, the war in Iraq was far from it and was completely illegal. The current provocative moves towards Iran aren't helping much either.

OK, thanks for clearing that up for me. I don't want to make this into a right vs. left type thread, so I will just thank you for your explanation and move on for now. Another time we can take the debate up. Just remember anytime I am involved I only am for civil debates (unlike what Vaio accused me of).