By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Which Is A Bigger Threat To Humanity? Science Or Religion?

Yerm said:
Religion doesnt do anything but hold us back. we cant sacrifice scientific and cultural advancement for a god that doesnt even exist

what evidence do you have to show that god does not exist?



Around the Network
SpokenTruth said:
CaptainExplosion said:
If you ask me, I think the real threat to humanity is ignorance.

Ignorance causes slavery, genocide, excessive pollution, endangered species, class warfare, corruption, greed and murder.

I'll see your ignorance and raise you empathy.

Lack of empathy is responsible for your list too.

 

If we could increase empathy and decrease ignorance.....we will evolve to the next level of humanity.

i'd argue that unbridled compassion is what the forces of darkness are using to bring western civilisation to its knees

compassion/empathy must always be tempered with logic



Eagle367 said:
I would like to point out that we can't destroy the planet the planet will be here for millions of years more even without any life like other planets are and even at that some insects plants and bacteria can survive nuclear winter do even life itself will not be wiped out. Stop saying saving the planet that's factually incorrect say saving humanity or saving nature at best even though that is somewhat of a stretch

"Stop saying saving the planet that's factually incorrect"

you don't think we have the potential to destroy the planet?

did you know that they considered that the first nuclear tests might have lead to a chain reaction giving out for more energy yields than intended?

and that was decades ago



JWeinCom said:
It seems that science is being equated with either progress, technology, or knowledge...

Moreover though, it's kind of a silly question to be honest. We know that either can be used for good or bad means, and that neither alone is sufficient to kill on a large scale.

The more relevant question would be which has a greater net benefit to the world. Science can be used to kill, but there are countless benefits of science (or technology) that cannot be gained through any other means. For example medicine, antiseptics, locomotion, long range communications, videogames, potato chips that taste like tacos, a drastic decrease in poverty and hunger, a drastic increase in life expectancy and quality of life, and so on. So, even if science is potentially dangerous, it is worth keeping and fixing, because we have no other way to get the benefits.

On the other hand, there is, to my knowledge, no benefit that we can get through religion that we can not achieve through other means. There's no benefit that requires religion to balance out the dangers, so it's not useful to keep it.

"We know that either can be used for good or bad means, and that neither alone is sufficient to kill on a large scale."

nuclear war or accidents cannot kill on a large scale?

 

"Science can be used to kill, but there are countless benefits of science (or technology) that cannot be gained through any other means."

as i asked someone else, what is the point of those benefits if due to global warming we all drown when the ice caps melt?

 

"On the other hand, there is, to my knowledge, no benefit that we can get through religion that we can not achieve through other means. There's no benefit that requires religion to balance out the dangers, so it's not useful to keep it."

fair enough, that's your perspective



o_O.Q said:
palou said:

We can, and have, quite successfuly kill biodiversity without much science at all. Ex: all the megafauna of the americas was hunted to extinction by primitives with sticks ans stones.

i'm not saying that naturally processes don't cause extinctions, i'm saying that the processes we developed have caused far more extinctions than natural processes do and will continue to do so

The collapse of Mesopotamia is partly attributed to ignorance about irrigation. They basically poisoned their own fields by letting the mineral salts build up in the top layer of the soil. Humans are very capable of wiping themselves out.

Processes we developed have yielded far better results in sustaining farm land than without science.

A lot of extinctions have resulted from going about our ways without properly understanding how things work. Like spreading diseases, introducing plants and wildlife into new areas that can't cope with it. Over fishing, is that caused by science making fishing more efficient or by ignorance or willfully ignoring the impact on the ecosystem.

On one side science have decreased the number of infant deaths and lengthened our lifespan, yet it also provides ways and incentives to reduce birth rates. However religion is still perfectly fine to have you reproduce like rabbits. Over population is the biggest problem. Having 1 less kid will save the environment more than anything else you can possibly do.



Around the Network
Pemalite said:
o_O.Q said:

On the other hand, however, we have science which has developed every single weapon of destruction used throughout history to cause harm and directly affects our environment causing unwanted effects such as global warming and loss of biodiversity

Atomic bombs, nuclear bombs, tanks, assault rifles, war planes, aircraft carriers, biological weapons... these are all technological devices created by science for one purpose- to end life

The development of these and other weapons and the other peripheral effects i touched briefly on (global warming for example) have arguably lead to the loss of more life than the conflicts of religion have... so which is the greater threat to mankind? discuss

Science has also provided the world with advanced medicines, vehicles with advanced safety features, electricity, clean running water, refrigeration to ensure foods don't go bad.
Science has likely saved billions of people over the last few centuries.

o_O.Q said:

but does it matter if in a couple centuries or so (by some estimates apparently) we are all flooded out when the ice caps melt completely?

the ice caps melting most people would argue is a direct result of our technological progress not because of a natural phenomenon

Science has the potential to stop/reverse that.
Religion does not.

o_O.Q said:

but scientific developments are what give people the capacity to cause great harm, if we didn't pollute the atmosphere, for example, global warming and the ridiculous amounts of destruction it has caused ( the loss of coral reefs and marine biodiversity ) and will cause on the future would not happen

Fact of the matter is, nothing lasts forever.
The Earth will one day come to an end... That might not happen until our Star becomes a red giant... But it will still end.
Science will open up the possibility to avoid such a catastrophe'.

Plus... Population seems to be forever on the increase, without science we wouldn't have advanced farming practices and clean running water to the extent we have currently, thus famine and undernourishment would possibly be the norm.

o_O.Q said:

really? compared to the recent wars, the loss of biodiversity, rising global temperatures, increased hurricanes, nuclear disasters etc etc etc? i'm not sure about that myself when you look at this holistically

Seems you already have a confirmation bias on this particular topic?
The Earth isn't destroyed, not yet anyway, Science still has plenty of time to solve these issues.

Ironically, it's the far-right, typically religious conservatives that are against the idea of things like climate change and thus the solution to many of those issues you have listed.

jason1637 said:
There's nothing wrong with religion so I say science.

I am the complete opposite.

Science will reveal the real Truth.
Religion will make it's own Truth.


justinian said:

Science is a religion. Ultimate both priest and scientists ask us to believe in things we have no way of proving ourselves, whether it is a man in the sky or life on Jupiter. I cannot go to Jupiter to prove if this is true if Scientists say it is.

Absolutely false.

Science requires empirical evidence, repeatable testing, working models. - It is then often written in a whitepaper and/or scientific journal which is then peer reviewed.
So you can see the process of how they came to their conclusions.

You can even go out and replicate the scientific process.

As for your Jupiter claim, you can use a Telescope to see it for your self... That is the power of Science, religion on the other hand... Your only option is to  believe the planet exists.
And as for life on other planets... Typically a probe is sent out that has gathered evidence that the public can observe for themselves.

Wiibaron said:
The biggest threat to humanity right now is unchecked human breeding. Lack of religion is a big part of this. Science lets humans live maybe way longer than is optimal for a good balance of productive contribution to humanity. And with the growing population of low quality younger people needed to pay and help the increasing amount of older folks, the future looks bleak.

Maybe religions should stop being against same-sex marriage, euthanasia, abortions and birth control if unchecked population increases are such a massive concern?

dgboweniii said:

Christian's want to stake their claim on the Bible, which is a book written by some old guys, than was packaged by the romans to control the jews.  "Faith" is the answer. (I am a Christian but I am not delusional)

"Faith" is not the answer.
Faith by it's very definition is belief without evidence.

You can also disbelieve in a particular deity based on "faith". - Thus faith is not a path to truth.

RaptorChrist said:

Lastly, and I'm sure that I'm not the only person to think about this, but... There are so many different religions with conflicting views. They can't all be right, so what do religious people think of other religions besides their own?

Indeed. There are over 4,000+ religions in the world, many claim their religion is the truth, that their deity/deities are the only true one.
Even large theistic religions like Christianity have hundreds/thousands of denominations and not all of them agree on everything.

Asking for evidence to justify their religious claims is the only true logical approach in my eyes.

Eagle367 said:

O would argue religion does not cause wars it is only the excuse used to rally the ignorant masses just like blind patriotism and nationalism. You know how many people the US has killed in the name of "national security".

Doesn't exactly help when various religions like Christianity and Islam promote things like slavery, women serving men, against divorce, death to homosexuals, stoning of children.


"Science has the potential to stop/reverse that."

there are many instances of irreversible harm being down to people or the environment as a consequence of our technology

the coral reefs marine biodiversity lost from increasing sea levels

the biodiversity lost from rainforests

the damage caused by various nuclear accidents and tests throughout history such as chernobyl or fukushima

and the list goes on and on and on with many different things i don't know of

 

"Religion does not."

you can't prove that, you can't prove that praying to god does not have positive impacts on the earth


"Seems you already have a confirmation bias on this particular topic?"

lay it out for me, i'm all ears

 

"Ironically, it's the far-right, typically religious conservatives that are against the idea of things like climate change and thus the solution to many of those issues you have listed."

how is it ironic? it could only be ironic if religion caused the problem to begin with... i'd argue that since religion is against technology advancement that its actually quite the opposite

 

"Fact of the matter is, nothing lasts forever.

The Earth will one day come to an end... "

true... is this some kind of justification for the damage we've caused to the planet?



SvennoJ said:
o_O.Q said:

i'm not saying that naturally processes don't cause extinctions, i'm saying that the processes we developed have caused far more extinctions than natural processes do and will continue to do so

The collapse of Mesopotamia is partly attributed to ignorance about irrigation. They basically poisoned their own fields by letting the mineral salts build up in the top layer of the soil. Humans are very capable of wiping themselves out.

Processes we developed have yielded far better results in sustaining farm land than without science.

A lot of extinctions have resulted from going about our ways without properly understanding how things work. Like spreading diseases, introducing plants and wildlife into new areas that can't cope with it. Over fishing, is that caused by science making fishing more efficient or by ignorance or willfully ignoring the impact on the ecosystem.

On one side science have decreased the number of infant deaths and lengthened our lifespan, yet it also provides ways and incentives to reduce birth rates. However religion is still perfectly fine to have you reproduce like rabbits. Over population is the biggest problem. Having 1 less kid will save the environment more than anything else you can possibly do.

"The collapse of Mesopotamia is partly attributed to ignorance about irrigation. They basically poisoned their own fields by letting the mineral salts build up in the top layer of the soil. Humans are very capable of wiping themselves out. 


Processes we developed have yielded far better results in sustaining farm land than without science."

"A lot of extinctions have resulted from going about our ways without properly understanding how things work. Like spreading diseases, introducing plants and wildlife into new areas that can't cope with it. Over fishing, is that caused by science making fishing more efficient or by ignorance or willfully ignoring the impact on the ecosystem."

as a result of technological advancement without understanding the consequences... so you're pretty much pushing the science is more dangerous side

you have to acknowledge that this is a constant problem for mankind, we never know completely what the consequences of adopting new technology will be


"However religion is still perfectly fine to have you reproduce like rabbits. Over population is the biggest problem. Having 1 less kid will save the environment more than anything else you can possibly do."

i could argue that overpopulation occurs because science has increased the standard of living for humans, stopping us from falling to the causes that would naturally keep our population in check

i'd also argue that its not necessarily our population size that is the issue but how we live as a result of our use of technology 



The funny thing is science will probably be what kills off our race in the end. Would have lasted longer as cavemen believing in God's lol



NightlyPoe said:
If we're talking endgame, science is the only one of the two that can actually completely destroy humanity. I also believe that history would be every bit as bloody as it currently is without religion. Religion tends to be an excuse for fighting, not the actual cause.

i actually totally agree with the second part of your post

religion tends to be the scapegoat for irrationality and ignorance but i'm realising more and more that they are an unavoidable consequence of being a human being.... the most irrational people i've been seeing recently are funny enough atheists



SpokenTruth said:
o_O.Q said:

i'd argue that unbridled compassion is what the forces of darkness are using to bring western civilisation to its knees

compassion/empathy must always be tempered with logic

That's looking at things from half way.  I didn't say just empathy on our side, did I?

That was a very Christian oriented answer too.  You completely ignored the notion of empathy from all sides and only applied it to western civilizations.

well i'm saying that at this point in time, more empathy is not needed, what is needed now from my perspective is reason and if we can't do so the consequences will be dire in my view

"I didn't say just empathy on our side, did I?"

empathy is inherently polarised... it is always mediated by a preference, because people always value some things more than other things or are in other words subjective in their views

for example, how much empathy do you have for a male sexual harasser?