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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS4 Sells 5.9 Million Units Worldwide During 2017 Holiday Season, >73.6 Million Sold Through

kazuyamishima said:
Genos8 said:

Why did you list a bunch of things with no relevance to what I said? The whole point is the sales being higher if the switch didn't exist.

How it stole sales from the other systems? 

It did 17 and something millions in 2015

And 20.2 millions in 2017 WITH the switch.

And it would have done more WITHOUT the switch. That's the point I made.

DonFerrari said:
Genos8 said:

Why did you list a bunch of things with no relevance to what I said? The whole point is the sales being higher if the switch didn't exist.

Because wait you said is irrelevant, wrong and ill informed. Based on poorly made simplification.

Because you say so? I presented my point and explained it well. You not agreeing with it won't invalidate it. And I'd really apreciate you toning down on that hostility that seems to be on all of your responses to me.



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DonFerrari said:
KLAMarine said:

You speak of me?

How do you know this?

How do you know that "the Wii demographic didn't buy consoles before or after Wii"?

I won't enter the same discussion with you when you fail to recognize spoke person of Nintendo and other companies about the strategy and target audience of Wii even after being on VGC for over 3 years.

A sale is a sale. Does it really make a difference if the person buying is a casual or a core gamer?

DonFerrari said:

Because certainly the elderlies that loved Wii Sports are the same demograph of God of War.

Those elderly gamers might have purchased an Atari or NES back in the day. Also, like I asked thismeintiel, is it impossible that PS2 and XBox owners had their share of casuals?



Genos8 said:
kazuyamishima said:

How it stole sales from the other systems? 

It did 17 and something millions in 2015

And 20.2 millions in 2017 WITH the switch.

And it would have done more WITHOUT the switch. That's the point I made.

DonFerrari said:

Because wait you said is irrelevant, wrong and ill informed. Based on poorly made simplification.

Because you say so? I presented my point and explained it well. You not agreeing with it won't invalidate it. And I'd really apreciate you toning down on that hostility that seems to be on all of your responses to me.

Nope, because I saw your argument with CGI and how you completely ignored that last year having PS4Pro and this year having December price being flat compared to last year I saw that you want to warp reality.

You said Switch didn't had supply, and ignored that since October it have.

KLAMarine said:
DonFerrari said:

I won't enter the same discussion with you when you fail to recognize spoke person of Nintendo and other companies about the strategy and target audience of Wii even after being on VGC for over 3 years.

A sale is a sale. Does it really make a difference if the person buying is a casual or a core gamer?

DonFerrari said:

Because certainly the elderlies that loved Wii Sports are the same demograph of God of War.

Those elderly gamers might have purchased an Atari or NES back in the day. Also, like I asked thismeintiel, is it impossible that PS2 and XBox owners had their share of casuals?

A sale is a sale. Still you can't say the market is shrinking or declining when it is just returning to it normal state, which is the one that wasn't inflated by Wii.

PS2 and Xbox had their share of casuals, PS3 and X360 also had, PS4 and X1 also have. There are a lot of gamers that buy the console for only Fifa and CoD. That isn't the same as someone that had no interest in gaming buy bought Wii for the motion control and didn't stay in gaming.

Sure some of the elderlies could have bought Atari or NES, 30+ years ago, still doesn't make it the demography of current consoles to say its market shrank.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Genos8 said:

And it would have done more WITHOUT the switch. That's the point I made.

Because you say so? I presented my point and explained it well. You not agreeing with it won't invalidate it. And I'd really apreciate you toning down on that hostility that seems to be on all of your responses to me.

Nope, because I saw your argument with CGI and how you completely ignored that last year having PS4Pro and this year having December price being flat compared to last year I saw that you want to warp reality.

You said Switch didn't had supply, and ignored that since October it have.

KLAMarine said:

A sale is a sale. Does it really make a difference if the person buying is a casual or a core gamer?

Those elderly gamers might have purchased an Atari or NES back in the day. Also, like I asked thismeintiel, is it impossible that PS2 and XBox owners had their share of casuals?

A sale is a sale. Still you can't say the market is shrinking or declining when it is just returning to it normal state, which is the one that wasn't inflated by Wii.

PS2 and Xbox had their share of casuals, PS3 and X360 also had, PS4 and X1 also have. There are a lot of gamers that buy the console for only Fifa and CoD. That isn't the same as someone that had no interest in gaming buy bought Wii for the motion control and didn't stay in gaming.

Sure some of the elderlies could have bought Atari or NES, 30+ years ago, still doesn't make it the demography of current consoles to say its market shrank.

I gave you the benefit of doubt the first time but now most of your reponses include at least one instance of you saying I said something (when I didn't). Stop it.



Genos8 said:
DonFerrari said:

Nope, because I saw your argument with CGI and how you completely ignored that last year having PS4Pro and this year having December price being flat compared to last year I saw that you want to warp reality.

You said Switch didn't had supply, and ignored that since October it have.

A sale is a sale. Still you can't say the market is shrinking or declining when it is just returning to it normal state, which is the one that wasn't inflated by Wii.

PS2 and Xbox had their share of casuals, PS3 and X360 also had, PS4 and X1 also have. There are a lot of gamers that buy the console for only Fifa and CoD. That isn't the same as someone that had no interest in gaming buy bought Wii for the motion control and didn't stay in gaming.

Sure some of the elderlies could have bought Atari or NES, 30+ years ago, still doesn't make it the demography of current consoles to say its market shrank.

I gave you the benefit of doubt the first time but now most of your reponses include at least one instance of you saying I said something (when I didn't). Stop it.

So you saying December were the first month Switch had supply is a collective ilusion?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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DonFerrari said:
Genos8 said:

I gave you the benefit of doubt the first time but now most of your reponses include at least one instance of you saying I said something (when I didn't). Stop it.

So you saying December were the first month Switch had supply is a collective ilusion?

Didin't know holidays quarter = december. I even specificaly said stock was low for the first 7 MONTHS, AKA march - september.



DonFerrari said:
KLAMarine said:

A sale is a sale. Does it really make a difference if the person buying is a casual or a core gamer?

Those elderly gamers might have purchased an Atari or NES back in the day. Also, like I asked thismeintiel, is it impossible that PS2 and XBox owners had their share of casuals?

A sale is a sale.

Yes! A console sale is a console sale.

DonFerrari said:

Still you can't say the market is shrinking or declining

I can't? Even though it has shrunk/declined?

DonFerrari said:

when it is just returning to it normal state

A return that is also a shrink, a dip, a fall, a decline, a loss, a downward trend. Call it what you will but has the direction it has headed not been clear? Has it not been downward?

DonFerrari said:

which is the one that wasn't inflated by Wii.

I'm sorry, is the Wii not a console? Last I checked, it was classified as a console and thus contributed towards total console sales.

DonFerrari said:

PS2 and Xbox had their share of casuals, PS3 and X360 also had, PS4 and X1 also have. There are a lot of gamers that buy the console for only Fifa and CoD. That isn't the same as someone that had no interest in gaming buy bought Wii for the motion control and didn't stay in gaming.

Begging a lot of questions here Ferrari:

"had no interest in gaming" and "didn't say in gaming"? So the Wii got them into gaming and then they left? Is that not growth followed by a shrinkage? Are the Wii Sports games that elderly people played not games?

Also, how do you know they didn't stay in gaming? Just because they left console gaming doesn't mean they left gaming. They could have gone to tablets or smartphone gaming or PC gaming or handheld gaming. They very much could have stayed in gaming just not console gaming.

DonFerrari said:

Sure some of the elderlies could have bought Atari or NES, 30+ years ago, still doesn't make it the demography of current consoles to say its market shrank.

Of course they're not the demographics of current console consumers, they have left. The market has shrunk.

Another point: the 360 and PS3 just like the Wii had web browsers, had Netflix, and played DVDs. Non-gaming applications that could be used by gamers and non-gamers alike. How do we factor this in if we were to take your approach on assessing console market growth/shrinkage? You wanna filter out casuals right? How do we go about this? Where do we get the numbers?

Like I said before: one opens up a can of worms when they want to filter out casuals.

 

How about we just keep things simple?..

 

A sale is a sale. That's it.



Genos8 said:
DonFerrari said:

So you saying December were the first month Switch had supply is a collective ilusion?

Didin't know holidays quarter = december. I even specificaly said stock was low for the first 7 MONTHS, AKA march - september.

So Switch stock being available wasn't an issue for PS4 during October and November, but became a problem in December??? Because November was in fact the best month ever...

So you are making a lot of strange condictions to say Switch have impacted PS4 sales a lot, but only for December.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

KLAMarine said:
DonFerrari said:

A sale is a sale.

Yes! A console sale is a console sale.

DonFerrari said:

Still you can't say the market is shrinking or declining

I can't? Even though it has shrunk/declined?

DonFerrari said:

when it is just returning to it normal state

A return that is also a shrink, a dip, a fall, a decline, a loss, a downward trend. Call it what you will but has the direction it has headed not been clear? Has it not been downward?

DonFerrari said:

which is the one that wasn't inflated by Wii.

I'm sorry, is the Wii not a console? Last I checked, it was classified as a console and thus contributed towards total console sales.

DonFerrari said:

PS2 and Xbox had their share of casuals, PS3 and X360 also had, PS4 and X1 also have. There are a lot of gamers that buy the console for only Fifa and CoD. That isn't the same as someone that had no interest in gaming buy bought Wii for the motion control and didn't stay in gaming.

Begging a lot of questions here Ferrari:

"had no interest in gaming" and "didn't say in gaming"? So the Wii got them into gaming and then they left? Is that not growth followed by a shrinkage? Are the Wii Sports games that elderly people played not games?

Also, how do you know they didn't stay in gaming? Just because they left console gaming doesn't mean they left gaming. They could have gone to tablets or smartphone gaming or PC gaming or handheld gaming. They very much could have stayed in gaming just not console gaming.

DonFerrari said:

Sure some of the elderlies could have bought Atari or NES, 30+ years ago, still doesn't make it the demography of current consoles to say its market shrank.

Of course they're not the demographics of current console consumers, they have left. The market has shrunk.

Another point: the 360 and PS3 just like the Wii had web browsers, had Netflix, and played DVDs. Non-gaming applications that could be used by gamers and non-gamers alike. How do we factor this in if we were to take your approach on assessing console market growth/shrinkage? You wanna filter out casuals right? How do we go about this? Where do we get the numbers?

Like I said before: one opens up a can of worms when they want to filter out casuals.

 

How about we just keep things simple?..

 

A sale is a sale. That's it.

And that is why I said I won't discuss this with you again. You are hellbent in try to put the market on a condition that ignores reality just to say it shrunk.

Windows had previous version have like 4 free games, but it seems it doesn't anymore. So since before the computers had games installed and now they don't have the PC gaming market shrinked a lot? Because that is the type of point you are making.

Those Wii buyers that weren't interested in gaming, also didn't become interested in gaming on Wii. They played some type of games that weren't part of the general offering.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Genos8 said:

Didin't know holidays quarter = december. I even specificaly said stock was low for the first 7 MONTHS, AKA march - september.

So Switch stock being available wasn't an issue for PS4 during October and November, but became a problem in December??? Because November was in fact the best month ever...

So you are making a lot of strange condictions to say Switch have impacted PS4 sales a lot, but only for December.

You are the only one talking about december. Effect was as a whole when stock got bigger, not a specific month. Stop making things up.