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Forums - Gaming - The Ending of Games #2 - Final Fantasy X

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DonFerrari said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:
I really loved the story and characters to FFX as a whole. It was probably my favorite thing about the game. Having said that, I found the ending to be disappointing. I didn't like that Tidus was a dream, because I felt they had pulled a very similar plot twist with Auron. It was very cool when they did it with Auron being a ghost. However, I feel that is the kind of twist you shouldn't be allowed to pull more than once in the same story. When they did something similar with Tidus it felt unoriginal.

It isn't similar man.

The full zanarkadian is a dream/summon, Tidus and his father only happen to be from there (perhaps even more previous guardians of the summoner), while there were some red hearings about Auron being a dead person.

Surprise!  Your party member is really a ghost.

AND

Surprise!  Your party member is really a dream.

 

They are pretty similar.  Your party member is fake somehow.  Then they fade out.



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The_Liquid_Laser said:

Surprise!  Your party member is really a ghost.

AND

Surprise!  Your party member is really a dream.

 

They are pretty similar.  Your party member is fake somehow.  Then they fade out.

The implications are different, however. Auron was dead all along, but under the Death rules of Spira, he could come back to finish what he couldn't end before. He's not unlike Seymour, who dies several times throughout the game, or certain other characters that come briefly from Death before vanishing. He doesn't enter the Farplane because it would show (or he would be trapped due to) that he's dead. Tidus on the other hand can freely enter the Farplane because he isn't dead - he's merely not real.

The fact that they both vanish at the end is for two different reasons: Auron is an unsent - a deceased person, and therefore travels to the Farplane. Tidus is the recreation of a dream from the Fayth, who are also unsents, and because they aren't dreaming anymore, Tidus ceases to exist. There's a small moment of reunion between him and his father, surrounded by both Braska and Auron, but this still means Tidus will vanish entirely. Then there's the final sequence, with Tidus waking up elsewhere.

I get where you're coming from, since it's a similar effect used for both characters, but the meaning behind both characters vanishing are different. That being said, I've always said Auron being an unsent causes terrible issues to the plot, but I try not to think too much about it.



Wright said:

I get where you're coming from, since it's a similar effect used for both characters, but the meaning behind both characters vanishing are different. That being said, I've always said Auron being an unsent causes terrible issues to the plot, but I try not to think too much about it.

What are those issues out of interest? I think him being dead fits quite well in the whole thing.

 

On topic, the ending. The sacrifice Tidus made to save everyone on Spira was a great moment.

Just a shame it was all undone by a single scene and X-2.



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:
Wright said:

I get where you're coming from, since it's a similar effect used for both characters, but the meaning behind both characters vanishing are different. That being said, I've always said Auron being an unsent causes terrible issues to the plot, but I try not to think too much about it.

What are those issues out of interest? I think him being dead fits quite well in the whole thing.

I've always felt it creates a terrible conflict within the world's rules in itself. Aside from gameplay segregation (i.e. Auron dying and getting a game over, but these are game mechanics and thus should be looked at differently), I've never understood why should anyone fear death, nor why sending is that important. You're bound to be an unsent because you have unfinished business, and as long as you don't envy the living, you don't really become a fiend. Seymour basically learn this and keeps going over and over because he can't truly be killed unless forcibly sent, but it also highlights the fact that there's nothing stopping you from coming back from the Farplane - Seymour didn't even envy the living, being an unsent gave him a new outlook about life entirely.

Then there's Auron. Auron is an unsent because, well, he felt cheated by Yu Yevon and everything else, so he had to come back and make sure things stood right a second time. Why the hell does he age? How does Yuna can't felt an unsent presence so close to her? How come he didn't lose sanity? At what point do you actually have the willpower to come back from death and keep living your life? And if you can do this, why wouldn't some of the deceased do it as well? Auron is basically the prime example of posing the question why should anyone fear death in Spira? since he can basically camouflage himself as a living person and just happily stand with a bunch of guardians going on an adventure. It's explicitly stated (unless he's a damn great actor) that he feels emotions while being unsent (joking with Yuna at the temples or being extremely angry at Seymour), so there's literally zero downsides of his status. The only plausible thing I could think of is going insane and thus becoming a fiend - but since he's pretty much the same as a living person, any sane living person could go insane, get killed and come back as a powerful fiend, so the line that separates both is actually very, very thin.

There's people that die in peace, such as Tidus' mother. But not every person can die in peace, and not necessarily every one of these have to die envying the living. Especially when what's there to envy the living of, since you're pretty much a living person being unsent? Auron makes death/unsent rules in Spira look like a joke.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, Seymour's father despite being sent has the massive willpower to push himself out of the freaking Farplane to warn Yuna about Seymour. Seriously, nothing ever stays dead in this world, and has no reason to.



Wright said:

I've always felt it creates a terrible conflict within the world's rules in itself. Aside from gameplay segregation (i.e. Auron dying and getting a game over, but these are game mechanics and thus should be looked at differently), I've never understood why should anyone fear death, nor why sending is that important. You're bound to be an unsent because you have unfinished business, and as long as you don't envy the living, you don't really become a fiend. Seymour basically learn this and keeps going over and over because he can't truly be killed unless forcibly sent, but it also highlights the fact that there's nothing stopping you from coming back from the Farplane - Seymour didn't even envy the living, being an unsent gave him a new outlook about life entirely.

Then there's Auron. Auron is an unsent because, well, he felt cheated by Yu Yevon and everything else, so he had to come back and make sure things stood right a second time. Why the hell does he age? How does Yuna can't felt an unsent presence so close to her? How come he didn't lose sanity? At what point do you actually have the willpower to come back from death and keep living your life? And if you can do this, why wouldn't some of the deceased do it as well? Auron is basically the prime example of posing the question why should anyone fear death in Spira? since he can basically camouflage himself as a living person and just happily stand with a bunch of guardians going on an adventure. It's explicitly stated (unless he's a damn great actor) that he feels emotions while being unsent (joking with Yuna at the temples or being extremely angry at Seymour), so there's literally zero downsides of his status. The only plausible thing I could think of is going insane and thus becoming a fiend - but since he's pretty much the same as a living person, any sane living person could go insane, get killed and come back as a powerful fiend, so the line that separates both is actually very, very thin.

There's people that die in peace, such as Tidus' mother. But not every person can die in peace, and not necessarily every one of these have to die envying the living. Especially when what's there to envy the living of, since you're pretty much a living person being unsent? Auron makes death/unsent rules in Spira look like a joke.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, Seymour's father despite being sent has the massive willpower to push himself out of the freaking Farplane to warn Yuna about Seymour. Seriously, nothing ever stays dead in this world, and has no reason to.

I see where you are coming from. The idea of death means little when there are so many ways to preserve it in Spira, whether by being unsent, a summon dream or in the case of X-2, just being bought back for no reason. Most of those unsent had willpower to remain for various reasons, Seymore trying to seek more power, Mika because he belived Spira needed him (once Yunalesca was killed he basically gave up and disappeared). Auron even had enough will power to resist being sent when near Yuna doing a sending once.

I guess the idea behind it is that normally if you die and aren't strong enough you give in to the idea of wanting life and become a fiend but if you are strong enough you are able to remain yourself with your own willpower.

I getcha though.



Hmm, pie.

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The Fury said:

 or in the case of X-2, just being bought back for no reason.

I really should beat X-2 one of these days. I just need to find some motivation to do so.



The_Liquid_Laser said:
DonFerrari said:

It isn't similar man.

The full zanarkadian is a dream/summon, Tidus and his father only happen to be from there (perhaps even more previous guardians of the summoner), while there were some red hearings about Auron being a dead person.

Surprise!  Your party member is really a ghost.

AND

Surprise!  Your party member is really a dream.

 

They are pretty similar.  Your party member is fake somehow.  Then they fade out.

They are similar, but for me came totally different as wright explained bellow.

Wright said:
The_Liquid_Laser said:

Surprise!  Your party member is really a ghost.

AND

Surprise!  Your party member is really a dream.

 

They are pretty similar.  Your party member is fake somehow.  Then they fade out.

The implications are different, however. Auron was dead all along, but under the Death rules of Spira, he could come back to finish what he couldn't end before. He's not unlike Seymour, who dies several times throughout the game, or certain other characters that come briefly from Death before vanishing. He doesn't enter the Farplane because it would show (or he would be trapped due to) that he's dead. Tidus on the other hand can freely enter the Farplane because he isn't dead - he's merely not real.

The fact that they both vanish at the end is for two different reasons: Auron is an unsent - a deceased person, and therefore travels to the Farplane. Tidus is the recreation of a dream from the Fayth, who are also unsents, and because they aren't dreaming anymore, Tidus ceases to exist. There's a small moment of reunion between him and his father, surrounded by both Braska and Auron, but this still means Tidus will vanish entirely. Then there's the final sequence, with Tidus waking up elsewhere.

I get where you're coming from, since it's a similar effect used for both characters, but the meaning behind both characters vanishing are different. That being said, I've always said Auron being an unsent causes terrible issues to the plot, but I try not to think too much about it.

The biggest plot twist is that he knew all along that Tidus was a dream, that the enemy would reemerge at every single time, who the real enemy was, etc... but never told anyone... I can understand others saying they don't want to know to not spoil their adventure (like Luffy on One Piece), but he not even trying to warn is a little odd.

And the other hard to understand point is Zetch being a dream also is capable of becoming a recipient for the enemy. It is so many levels intersected with "faith, dream, summon, cycle" that it's obnoxous.

The Fury said:
Wright said:

I get where you're coming from, since it's a similar effect used for both characters, but the meaning behind both characters vanishing are different. That being said, I've always said Auron being an unsent causes terrible issues to the plot, but I try not to think too much about it.

What are those issues out of interest? I think him being dead fits quite well in the whole thing.

On topic, the ending. The sacrifice Tidus made to save everyone on Spira was a great moment.

Just a shame it was all undone by a single scene and X-2.

Pointed one more above.

Wright said:
The Fury said:

What are those issues out of interest? I think him being dead fits quite well in the whole thing.

I've always felt it creates a terrible conflict within the world's rules in itself. Aside from gameplay segregation (i.e. Auron dying and getting a game over, but these are game mechanics and thus should be looked at differently), I've never understood why should anyone fear death, nor why sending is that important. You're bound to be an unsent because you have unfinished business, and as long as you don't envy the living, you don't really become a fiend. Seymour basically learn this and keeps going over and over because he can't truly be killed unless forcibly sent, but it also highlights the fact that there's nothing stopping you from coming back from the Farplane - Seymour didn't even envy the living, being an unsent gave him a new outlook about life entirely.

Then there's Auron. Auron is an unsent because, well, he felt cheated by Yu Yevon and everything else, so he had to come back and make sure things stood right a second time. Why the hell does he age? How does Yuna can't felt an unsent presence so close to her? How come he didn't lose sanity? At what point do you actually have the willpower to come back from death and keep living your life? And if you can do this, why wouldn't some of the deceased do it as well? Auron is basically the prime example of posing the question why should anyone fear death in Spira? since he can basically camouflage himself as a living person and just happily stand with a bunch of guardians going on an adventure. It's explicitly stated (unless he's a damn great actor) that he feels emotions while being unsent (joking with Yuna at the temples or being extremely angry at Seymour), so there's literally zero downsides of his status. The only plausible thing I could think of is going insane and thus becoming a fiend - but since he's pretty much the same as a living person, any sane living person could go insane, get killed and come back as a powerful fiend, so the line that separates both is actually very, very thin.

There's people that die in peace, such as Tidus' mother. But not every person can die in peace, and not necessarily every one of these have to die envying the living. Especially when what's there to envy the living of, since you're pretty much a living person being unsent? Auron makes death/unsent rules in Spira look like a joke.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, Seymour's father despite being sent has the massive willpower to push himself out of the freaking Farplane to warn Yuna about Seymour. Seriously, nothing ever stays dead in this world, and has no reason to.

Well, there are a lot of fiends, so possibly we have like 3 or 4 types of Spira people;

Those that are common, fullfiled what they wanted, died peacefully without regrets and gone to the farplane;

Those that are bad or ill minded and became fiends;

Those that are strong enough to stay among the living for long time retaining their sanity and all (would they be able to reproduce, that is the only difference I could think off... and the aging I think is mascaraed to hide his unsent status)

And there are the likes of Yu Yevon, Yunalesca, Seymour, etc... that just want to stay behind and refuse to go on.



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It's one of the most powerful video game endings I've seen. I always get choked up when Yuna runs and falls through Tidus or when she's whistling for him to come back after. Her final speech is very uplifting while keeping in mind those who were lost.

Last edited by TruckOSaurus - on 04 December 2017

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I actually just beat the game this year, but I had known the ending for a while. I was moved by it when I first saw it, but I actually really tend the enjoy endings in video games so I can't really say if this was a unique experience for me.